View Poll Results: Should women be allowed to specialize as infantry

Voters
175. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, and they should be integrated with the males

    101 57.71%
  • Yes, but keep their units seperate from male units

    16 9.14%
  • No, but women should be given some basic infantry skills beyond basic training

    33 18.86%
  • No, women should never serve in a role where they may encounter combat

    15 8.57%
  • Other....

    10 5.71%
Page 29 of 88 FirstFirst ... 1927282930313979 ... LastLast
Results 281 to 290 of 877

Thread: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

  1. #281
    Every day I'm hustlin'..
    Lerxst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nationwide...
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,400

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    Not really. A mod silenced me.
    That's a pretty common occurrence for you. Have you considered Haldol?
    *insert profound statement here*

  2. #282
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tiamat's better half
    Last Seen
    10-28-11 @ 01:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    15,998

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Moderator's Warning:
    Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military? This is all off topic and gets borderline 6a to boot. So quit it. There silenced again.

  3. #283
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    I get it done upstairs or not at all
    Eh, I offered. Your call.

  4. #284
    Every day I'm hustlin'..
    Lerxst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nationwide...
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,400

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Moderator's Warning:
    Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military? This is all off topic and gets borderline 6a to boot. So quit it. There silenced again.
    I bet you could kick some ass on the battlefield Tal...come on, admit it...you could easily take an rifle butt to some dudes skull and you know it.

    *insert profound statement here*

  5. #285
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:47 PM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,272
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I don't see this as possible. The training PT for men and women is already different, with different standards, right this very second for the jobs in which women are allowed to serve. They have already reduced standards and requirements for women in terms of what is required when it comes to how fast they run a mile and what exercises they need to be able to do in the positions they allow women to have in the military. There is absolutely nothing which suggests they wouldn't do the same when allowing women onto the battlefield. I'm adamantly against it and don't give a hoot if that means I don't get to keep a feminist card in my back pocket.
    This was addressed and refuted earlier in this thread. PT standards are based on overall physical fitness. Since men and women are different(yes, I admit it), the physical requirements for overall fitness are different.

    What I am saying, to be clear, is that for women to be able to serve in infantry, actual standards that are the same across the board would need to be put in place. This is different from PT standards currently in place. Certain jobs do require specific standards, this would just be along those lines.

    Note that if the military could not do this, I would tend to then oppose women in infantry/combat. The standards do need to accurately reflect the job required in modern combat, and should not be designed to get a specific result(ie either so easy that most women could complete it, or so difficult it is specifically designed to exclude women).

    By the way, I consider a "feminist" as some one who wants what is best for women and society. Under that definition, you get to keep your feminist card. Just because we do not agree does not mean we don't both want what is best.

  6. #286
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tiamat's better half
    Last Seen
    10-28-11 @ 01:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    15,998

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I bet you could kick some ass on the battlefield Tal...come on, admit it...you could easily take an rifle butt to some dudes skull and you know it.

    Maybe so, but ultimately I think the infighting caused by my goddess like presence would be too much of a distraction.

  7. #287
    Banned gree0232's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    All over
    Last Seen
    12-30-09 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    1,341

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    You've never served in the infantry have you? There are individuals of all different sized, shapes, and characters in the infantry. Ultimately it's not about coarse hairy goons at all.


    Unfortunately we're not talking about unarmed combat in a stadium. The M16A3 is a great equalizer even in the most fragile of hands.


    I wouldn't rush to chastise someone about babbling given your priors here.


    I know some women who could do that. I know some men who could not. What's your point? Not every soldier can qualify to be a Ranger, airborne, of hang in the light infantry. But they could potentially serve in a mechanized infantry unit.


    I know women who could do this and men who could not. You're not helping your argument here.
    Well, well, for someone so knowledgeable of the infantry, you certainly don;t seem to know much about how or why they are used.

    Having served in Airborne, light, Ranger, and mechanized infantry units, I will tell you that infantrymen in all of them require intense physicality to gain and maintain an edge in combat.

    Where do we use mechanized infantry?

    Well, there is certainly Korea. Whose masive mountains require infantrymen, wearing the same combat gear, to scale the mountains either in conjunction with fire from the armored assets, or to pass assets through the mountain passes to attack the enemies main forces. Does climbing mountains qualify as physical? Does the armor in support make it easier?

    There is also the reality of the other extreme, open desert. Nobody walked to Baghdad or Kabul, but when the battle starts, and especially in the close quarters of Urban Combat, the battles range intense and physical. And M-4 might be a great equalizer, but you have to bring it to bear in a manner that takes advantage of your enemies positioning. You must be able to reposition faster and more effectively then your enemy, and the sheer environment of passing between floors, pushing through barricades and often hand to hand combat that result, regardless of how you were delivered to battle (Airborne, Air Assault, or Mechanized) the reality is often the same.

    Not too mention, having seen a few destroyed armored vehicles, are women going to be able to reach in and carry out a an injured comrade from a turret?

    That still does not address the sexual competition between the sexes. If you think that levels of discipline between infantry units and logistics units are the same you are flat out wrong. It will also not prevent the inevitable gambit from emerging, "If Johnny goes through the door first, I'll get Suzie," and when such acts become obvious they will rip a unit apart.

    This is not about societal equity, this is about winning battles. Sometimes a same sex environment is necessary to help ensure that reality.

  8. #288
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Last Seen
    12-10-11 @ 02:19 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    5,122

    Arrow Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    And based upon the fact that some women can in fact meet the requirements for serving in the infantry, something you have no experience in yourself there tough guy,
    Lerxst just can't keep him self from the same kind of baiting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    and some men can't meet the requirements, then I suspect a very valid case for women serving in an infantry role does in fact exist.
    The approach you have attempted in this post is rather sad Jeff.

    You see, Scarecrow's hypotheticals both spoke of the genders, as a group.

    In both instances, you attempted to counter his assertions, with anecdotes about specific individuals. Individuals are not groups. Groups are what is under discussion here, as you can note in the thread title. You yourself, only switch back to the topic at hand, the whole group, in your end statement, which regards your preferred policy. So your policy on a group is being determined by data based on individual anecdotes.

    As I stated previously . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    You are trying to change the context from generalities to anecdotes about specific individuals.

    You're not helping your argument here.

  9. #289
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Last Seen
    12-10-11 @ 02:19 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    5,122

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This was addressed and refuted earlier in this thread. PT standards are based on overall physical fitness. Since men and women are different(yes, I admit it), the physical requirements for overall fitness are different.
    What a logical fallacy. The "requirements" come from the task and do not vary because the job is the job.

  10. #290
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tiamat's better half
    Last Seen
    10-28-11 @ 01:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    15,998

    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This was addressed and refuted earlier in this thread. PT standards are based on overall physical fitness. Since men and women are different(yes, I admit it), the physical requirements for overall fitness are different.

    What I am saying, to be clear, is that for women to be able to serve in infantry, actual standards that are the same across the board would need to be put in place. This is different from PT standards currently in place. Certain jobs do require specific standards, this would just be along those lines.

    Note that if the military could not do this, I would tend to then oppose women in infantry/combat. The standards do need to accurately reflect the job required in modern combat, and should not be designed to get a specific result(ie either so easy that most women could complete it, or so difficult it is specifically designed to exclude women).

    By the way, I consider a "feminist" as some one who wants what is best for women and society. Under that definition, you get to keep your feminist card. Just because we do not agree does not mean we don't both want what is best.
    The expectations and training for the same positions would need to be EXACTLY the same for it even to begin to sound remotely acceptable. No ifs, ands, or buts. Unfortunately, we've already set a precedent that this won't be the case. Once you decide to let the women in then you have to deal with the fact that they're still being kept out because they can't perform or train the same. So then we give them different standards of training & PT. This may very well be acceptable on many levels for many jobs while remaining completely unacceptable on any level for other jobs.

Page 29 of 88 FirstFirst ... 1927282930313979 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •