View Poll Results: Should women be allowed to specialize as infantry

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  • Yes, and they should be integrated with the males

    101 57.71%
  • Yes, but keep their units seperate from male units

    16 9.14%
  • No, but women should be given some basic infantry skills beyond basic training

    33 18.86%
  • No, women should never serve in a role where they may encounter combat

    15 8.57%
  • Other....

    10 5.71%
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Thread: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

  1. #181
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Men are dogs, we would want to "hit that" Some of us would have less self control than others. +1 on your post.
    Weak sauce. So, your lack of self control means that women's opportunities should be compromised? Nice.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    For the record, I like doing a dangerous job, but I have no particular desire to enlist and serve in combat. However, for those women who do desire to, and who can meet the physical demands, I think that opportunities should be provided.

    I know what it's like to have people think that you shouldn't do a job because you have a uterus. I've dealt with that for most of my career. So, they definitely have my sympathies.

    When I started working with gangs, probably less than 1% of people in the field were female. That was 19 years ago. Now, things are much more integrated, but I still remember what it was like to have to prove myself daily.

  3. #183
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post

    Ahh thanks. So if I am correct, you were a social worker who worked with the police in an inner city? Am I correct?


    I would prefer that both males AND females met physical ability requirements. I have no problem with equal standards, though I think you are overestimating the number of times in a career that someone might be called upon to do this....male or female.

    It's just the one time that you need it that counts. And this is not something that is an impossible standard but something many of us should strive for in our lives. I have a set of personal standards that I maintain religiously. I do so, so that I am prepared.


    I think if one wants to be a police officer, there are minimums such as being able to drag the weight of the average person away from danger.


    Lets say in one of your instances, a scrawny male cop who could not drag 150lbs watched his partner get shot. He weighs 180lbs. He is in the crossfire.

    The former, is a liability.






    NOt a huge fan of Dinkins, and I think you'll find this is less of an issue these days.

    I agree. it is better.





    I've been fired on more than once, yes.

    But not in combat? There is a difference.




    And marching to baghdad and staying in the green zone isn't precisely the same as serving high hazard warrants all day in South Central LA. The differences are less profound than you'd imagine.


    in 2008 only 38 of the 800,000+ police officers in this country had died from a gunshot.


    in 2008 314 of the 135,000 troops in iraq had been killed that sae year.



    I submit the differences are far more profound than you suggest.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  4. #184
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Weak sauce. So, your lack of self control means that women's opportunities should be compromised? Nice.




    Read it again, not my lack of self control. All it takes is one bad apple, male or female.
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  5. #185
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    For the record, I like doing a dangerous job, but I have no particular desire to enlist and serve in combat. However, for those women who do desire to, and who can meet the physical demands, I think that opportunities should be provided.

    I know what it's like to have people think that you shouldn't do a job because you have a uterus. I've dealt with that for most of my career. So, they definitely have my sympathies.

    When I started working with gangs, probably less than 1% of people in the field were female. That was 19 years ago. Now, things are much more integrated, but I still remember what it was like to have to prove myself daily.





    I can see that being a woman in this role is actually a benefit. Given the perception of women being les intimidating and threatening, than a man to many in gang culture.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Ahh thanks. So if I am correct, you were a social worker who worked with the police in an inner city? Am I correct?
    I specifically stated what I did. I did street gang intervention with gang members. This entailed working with young people who were heavily involved in gangs in their homes and neighborhoods. It involved me transporting young people with violent histories in my vehicle, ALONE. It involved me working a night shift in dangerous neighborhoods where the cops worked in teams of two.

    Please stop with the attempts to diminish my work. I've never disrespected your job. Almost all of my clients had histories of violent crimes: aggravated assault, aggravated robberies, and homicides.


    It's just the one time that you need it that counts. And this is not something that is an impossible standard but something many of us should strive for in our lives. I have a set of personal standards that I maintain religiously. I do so, so that I am prepared.
    That's great, and it appears that most members of the military would prefer that the physical standards be equal, and based upon the specific responsibilities of the job. IS that currently the case? If not, it has nothing to do with the women in the armed forces.

    Lets say in one of your instances, a scrawny male cop who could not drag 150lbs watched his partner get shot. He weighs 180lbs. He is in the crossfire.

    The former, is a liability.
    There are multiple responses to a situation like the one you described. At a minimum, he can return the fire.

    But not in combat? There is a difference.
    Women aren't allowed in combat, remember? I've been shot at while performing my duties. How many Americans do you think that applies to? That puts both of us in a rather exclusive club out of the 300 million, doesn't it?

    in 2008 only 38 of the 800,000+ police officers in this country had died from a gunshot.
    AS DISCUSSED, the vast majority of police officers work in small towns and rural counties where they are less likely to be fired upon. I specifically stated that I was discussing high impact urban crime areas, so I'm talking about a small percentage of total police officers, where the conditions are much more similar to urban combat.

    I submit the differences are far more profound than you suggest.
    And I submit that you don't know much about serving high hazard warrants.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 05-27-09 at 11:46 AM.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I can see that being a woman in this role is actually a benefit. Given the perception of women being les intimidating and threatening, than a man to many in gang culture.
    There's a profound lack of understanding between you and I. In urban street gang culture, respect is based upon fear. Thus, being less intimidating and/or threatening actually puts you at more risk of personal harm because you become perceived as prey by predators. The population I served were predatory by nature, and being prey could be fatal.

    I wasn't physically intimidating, so I had to compensate for that with a strong personality and good interpersonal skills. That's something I've seen with quite a few good police officers (male and female) over the years, too. They find other strengths, and find ways to resolve situations without use of force, and without loss of face. The more experienced an officer is, the less likely he or she is to resort to use of force, and the more tools he/she has to deal with situations.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 05-27-09 at 11:47 AM.

  8. #188
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I specifically stated what I did. I did street gang intervention with gang members. This entailed working with young people who were heavily involved in gangs in their homes and neighborhoods. It involved me transporting young people with violent histories in my vehicle, ALONE. It involved me working a night shift in dangerous neighborhoods where the cops worked in teams of two.

    Please stop with the attempts to diminish my work. I've never disrespected your job. Almost all of my clients had histories of violent crimes: aggravated assault, aggravated robberies, and homicides.

    hey, I am not dimminishing your work. I am simply trying to figure it out. What qualificatios does one need to do what you do.

    For example, I have a friend who does yout services in detroit. Sounds very similar to what you do.

    His background is in psychology, and is technically a social worker. This is why I asked.





    That's great, and it appears that most members of the military would prefer that the physical standards be equal, and based upon the specific responsibilities of the job. IS that currently the case? If not, it has nothing to do with the women in the armed forces.


    Yes, because if the standards are not equal, the person who has the lower standards is a liability who may just get you killed.


    There are multiple responses to a situation like the one you described. At a minimum, he can return the fire.


    yes, because leaving your partner in the middle of crossfire, is the most sound solution.




    Women aren't allowed in combat, remember? I've been shot at while performing my duties. How many Americans do you think that applies to? That puts both of us in a rather exclusive club out of the 300 million, doesn't it?

    Nah, you are much more exclusive. You went into a gun fight unarmed.


    AS DISCUSSED, the vast majority of police officers work in small towns and rural counties where they are less likely to be fired upon. I specifically stated that I was discussing high impact urban crime areas.

    45,000 nyc police officers in 2008. Total killed in 2008 5.


    Lets triple that number and average it out.


    That would be 135,000 (roughly the same number serving in Iraq). average the deaths by 3, thats 15.


    15 deaths compared to 314 in iraq that year.


    Not even in the same ballpark.



    And I submit that you don't know much about serving high hazard warrants.

    nope, but I assist in instructing CQB courses and shoot houses to maintain a skill set with a very notable individual in the business
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 05-27-09 at 11:54 AM.
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  9. #189
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    There's a profound lack of understanding between you and I. In urban street gang culture, respect is based upon fear. Thus, being less intimidating and/or threatening actually puts you at more risk of personal harm because you become perceived as prey by predators. The population I served were predatory by nature, and being prey could be fatal.

    No I understand that. You missed my point which is that thier guard was not as high given that you were not as "physically intimidating"...


    That's called an opening.


    I wasn't physically intimidating, so I had to compensate for that with a strong personality and good interpersonal skills. That's something I've seen with quite a few good police officers (male and female) over the years, too. They find other strengths, and find ways to resolve situations without use of force, and without loss of face. The more experienced an officer is, the less likely he or she is to resort to use of force, and the more tools he/she has to deal with situations.


    Kinda my point. peraps you misunderstood me.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  10. #190
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by The silenced majority View Post
    Sex, gender identity or sexual preference for that matter are irrelevant and inconsequential in regards to a person's ability to be an efficient killer and carry their own load.

    I choose the 1st option.
    I disagree, generally a women is not well suited to be an "efficient" killing machine.
    There are exceptions of course, and many men would fail in this mission.
    And we cannot have this "sexual preference" business in the military.. Only "real" men....
    The infantry is no place for social/sexual experimenting...nor are the prisons.

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