View Poll Results: Should women be allowed to specialize as infantry

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  • Yes, and they should be integrated with the males

    101 57.71%
  • Yes, but keep their units seperate from male units

    16 9.14%
  • No, but women should be given some basic infantry skills beyond basic training

    33 18.86%
  • No, women should never serve in a role where they may encounter combat

    15 8.57%
  • Other....

    10 5.71%
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Thread: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

  1. #101
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Your assumption is that women are inherently less physically suited to combat conditions than men. But combat involves more than carrying gear, and those kinds of responsibilities are assigned to those who are best suited for it. Even among males, guys can vary greatly in how much gear they can carry.

    Beyond that, the NAVY Seals routinely recruit men of small physical stature, which suggests that women, with their smaller, more dexterous hands which leads to greater skilll in weapons firing, could fill these jobs.

    Again, it's only for women who WANT to do the job. And the vast majority DON'T. But, women, for instance, could serve as snipers, and do the job well. The Russian army used women as snipers in WWII.

    Here's a corresponding situation - women in SWAT:

    L.A. SWAT Unit on Verge of Accepting First Woman : NPR

    Women In SWAT, What Does It Take? - cbs13.com
    My assumption is that yes in a general way when you're talking optimum fitness women aren't as strong as men.

    My assumption is also that sexual relationships on the battlefield would serve as a distraction. Women getting pregnant serves as an even bigger one. Should the military put much resources into a woman preparing her for combat only to send her home when she's knocked up by someone in her unit. And then there is definitely the matter of men getting caught up in petty b.s. - which is their fault I'll grant you that - when dealing with sexual tensions.

    Men and women are different. Women IMO are not made for battle. These differences are clear when it comes to size, shape, etc. Then there's the sexual manipulations and games. How many men do you know have legs as their avatar? There's just no room for that stuff on the battlefield. It wreaks havoc both on deployment and on the home front and the negatives out weight the positives.

  2. #102
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Wrong. That's out of several hundred thousand cops who serve, some of them in podunk little two-horse communities. The vast majority of cops work in small towns and rural communities. But, if you look at a per capita basis of injury ONLY in those areas with significant crime problems (and thus, equivalent to combat), the job is just as dangerous as combat.

    nonsense. take even detroit, say last year, compare it both injury and death between soldiers and police officers.


    I can tell neither of you knows what you're talking about on this particular subject. YOu're just letting your prejudices do the talking.


    What am I prejudiced about here? we are simply comparing cops to soldiers right now, not even getting into the standards for women and men argument.



    Are you a police officer or did you serve? I am curious, because you seem to be infering such. no biggie if you don't want to answer.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  3. #103
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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I said being a cop in an urban area. I'm thinking Los Angeles, Chicago, Miami, Houston, where the conditions in some areas are akin to combat conditions, and police are routinely fired on during shifts.
    Still not the same as being deployed in a unit with a mission to engage in battle on foreign lands. There are degrees, you know. It's just not the same.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    But strength becomes a factor if you are going to be on combat ready ground missions where you are expected to carry heavy equipment in relentless environments.

    Are you saying that strength isn't a factor? And if it is a factor and men are notably stronger after finishing their training then should that be ignored? Should we put a woman on a mission if she's less strong then the men in the group and thus has the potential to becomes a liability? And this furthers the potential to encourage chivalrous acts with men arguing over whose job it is to look out for her? How can we justify that? Add to that the problem that she may also be pregnant and you're essentially sending a woman and child to battle.
    I was in the navy, so have limited personal experiences with combat. But I can speak of women on the flight deck, which is supposedly about as close as you can get to a combat environment outside of a battlefield.

    To work on the flight deck, you are going to be wearing long pants, a turtle neck(yes, turtle neck, in 100 degree heat) float coat(inflatable vest), cranial with hearing protection("mickey mouse" ears) and goggles. Add in 1 to 3 tool pouches weighing up to 25 pounds. To minimally do the job, you are going to have to be able to lug around very heavy gear, or push carts, or any of a number of other physically demanding jobs. You are going to move around at a run alot, frequently going from bow to fantail carrying heavy gear at a full run, dodging taxiing aircraft.

    All this, women can and do do, and frequently better than their male counterparts. Not every woman can work the flight deck, but many can. If women can handle this emotionally, mentally and physically draining job, I firmly believe they can handle any military job, up to and including front line infantry.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    My assumption is that yes in a general way when you're talking optimum fitness women aren't as strong as men.
    That isn't the issue. The issue is: can women meet the minimum mandatory level that is required of men? If yes, they should be allowed to serve.

    My assumption is also that sexual relationships on the battlefield would serve as a distraction.
    Women learn to work it out. I've seen it face to face for the past 15 years. I worked with a unit of 15 guys, and while I'm attractive (those are my legs, fyi), sex wasn't an issue. We were PEERS. It was much more important to me to be one of the guys than to be the sexual plaything of the group. The vast majority of women who go into these kinds of roles are going to "get it." Those who don't, there are plenty of rules to deal with sexual misconduct and other forms of interpersonal issues.

    Women getting pregnant serves as an even bigger one. Should the military put much resources into a woman preparing her for combat only to send her home when she's knocked up by someone in her unit. And then there is definitely the matter of men getting caught up in petty b.s. - which is their fault I'll grant you that - when dealing with sexual tensions.
    People, male and female, find ways to leave combat. Pregnancy is no different than any other self-imposed disability and should not be treated differently. Women who get pregnant while TDY to a foreign combat zone should receive a dishonorable discharge. That would quickly resolve that issue.

    Women IMO are not made for battle. These differences are clear when it comes to size, shape, etc.
    Women are able to fulfill many combat roles, and seem to manage just fine as snipers, police officers, and other roles. But you aren't really interested in hearing a different opinion, are you, Talloulou. You just want to be reaffirmed in your basic biases.

    Then there's the sexual manipulations and games. How many men do you know have legs as their avatar? There's just no room for that stuff on the battlefield. It wreaks havoc both on deployment and on the home front and the negatives out weight the positives.
    I wore those legs every day working in a metro gang unit, and the guys I worked with seemed to be capable of keeping their eyes in their heads and functioning. I'm sure it was HARD for them, but hey, they were big boys, and not complete neanderthals. They even managed to take me seriously, in spite of the fact that I have breasts.

    Similarly, the guys I worked with were all hardbodies who frequently stripped down after serving high hazard warrants to their spandex in front of me all the time. I managed to overcome my base desires and still treat them like professionals. I miss the eye candy these days, but I would never have had sex with one of my guys in my unit.

    It was like a family. That's what some of y'all don't understand. When you do a dangerous job day in and day out with other people, you don't see them as sex objects. You see them as family. Having sex with them would be UGH...like kissing your brother.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 05-26-09 at 06:10 PM.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Still not the same as being deployed in a unit with a mission to engage in battle on foreign lands. There are degrees, you know. It's just not the same.
    It's similar enough to warrant allowing women to TRY. And you know, this same argument was made to keep women out of roles as police, firefighters, and medics. Somehow, women have managed to do these jobs, with distinction, in spite of having the handicap of a functioning uterus.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 05-26-09 at 06:11 PM.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    My assumption is that yes in a general way when you're talking optimum fitness women aren't as strong as men.

    My assumption is also that sexual relationships on the battlefield would serve as a distraction. Women getting pregnant serves as an even bigger one. Should the military put much resources into a woman preparing her for combat only to send her home when she's knocked up by someone in her unit. And then there is definitely the matter of men getting caught up in petty b.s. - which is their fault I'll grant you that - when dealing with sexual tensions.

    Men and women are different. Women IMO are not made for battle. These differences are clear when it comes to size, shape, etc. Then there's the sexual manipulations and games. How many men do you know have legs as their avatar? There's just no room for that stuff on the battlefield. It wreaks havoc both on deployment and on the home front and the negatives out weight the positives.
    I think you have a mistaken idea of what people are thinking about in combat. Sex would be a priority somewhat below having clean dry socks for tomorrow. Way way below things like staying alive, and getting some sleep.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I think you have a mistaken idea of what people are thinking about in combat. Sex would be a priority somewhat below having clean dry socks for tomorrow. Way way below things like staying alive, and getting some sleep.
    It's kind of like being shot at (and I have been)...the last thing you're thinking about is how hot the guy in the car with you is...You just want to go home safe and sound from your shift.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I think you have a mistaken idea of what people are thinking about in combat. Sex would be a priority somewhat below having clean dry socks for tomorrow. Way way below things like staying alive, and getting some sleep.
    I think it would happen and I think being engaged in battle while worrying about your sex partner would be disastrous for the unit as a whole. But I get that I'm old fashion. Luckily for now the military agrees with me.

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    Re: Should females be allowed to specialize as infantry in the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    But you aren't really interested in hearing a different opinion, are you, Talloulou. You just want to be reaffirmed in your basic biases.
    I think that's a perspective we share.

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