View Poll Results: Will the CA courts overturn Prop 8?

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  • Yes

    16 47.06%
  • No

    18 52.94%
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Thread: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    The overwhelming majority of the suporters of the Messiah voted for the discriminatory Proposition 8. No way is a court going to swim upstream against the mindless masses of horny mating salmon and overturn that Proposition.

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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    What is pure BS is the canard that people are saying any such thing.

    The will of the people was to pass Prop 8. The Amendment should stand.
    No, when the will of the mob violates the rights of the minority, the will of the mob is supposed to be set aside.

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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    ?

    How does that not fall within the spectrum of "California law"?
    Of course it does...unconstituional California law if I understand Celticlord's case. But restricting conversation to exclude personal opinion on a political discussion site in a thread about gay marriage seems stuffy.

  4. #84
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    No, when the will of the mob violates the rights of the minority, the will of the mob is supposed to be set aside.
    Everything that the majority does affects the rights of the minority. That's how democracy works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwaters View Post
    Of course it does...unconstituional California law if I understand Celticlord's case. But restricting conversation to exclude personal opinion on a political discussion site in a thread about gay marriage seems stuffy.
    I don't think he was trying to exclude personal opinion, I think his point was that what an individual person thinks is "right" is not relevant when discussing what a court will determine is legally right.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I don't think he was trying to exclude personal opinion, I think his point was that what an individual person thinks is "right" is not relevant when discussing what a court will determine is legally right.
    That is it exactly. As I stated previously, I am opposed to any government regulation of marriage, yet, from all that I have read on Proposition 8, I do not see any sustainable legal challenge to its implementation within the California Constitution.

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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    It is getting to the final days. The decision on CA's Prop 8 is coming up this week. Will the courts stand up for civil rights as they always have. Will they fight for the 4% of Americans that have no voice? Will they allow the mob rule that can be an ugly thing?

    I do believe that the courts will do the right thing and overturn Prop 8!
    You know, that's hard for me to call off-the-cuff since I haven't been keeping up with the in-court arguments.

    If I had to put money on it...I'd say they will strike it down. But I also bet that Mc.Cain would win the election, and that cost me my sig for a month

    I think Prop8 is legal, I just don't think the court has much regard for anything outside their agenda.

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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwaters View Post
    The Prop 8 amendment violates Article 1, Section 1, of California's Constitution, which enumerates "inalienable rights" to, among other things, liberty, happiness and privacy.
    Gays in CA already have access to every civil right under existing Civil Union law.

    The ONLY thing this is about is the word "marriage".

  8. #88
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    yet, from all that I have read on Proposition 8, I do not see any sustainable legal challenge to its implementation within the California Constitution.
    Why not? Granted my argument doesn't have any precedent (at least yet), but there is no precedent in the opposite direction either. Considering that the Courts already decided that the constitution prevented banning marriage, there are better than even odds than the court will conclude that Prop 8 is a revision.

    Its not like the court would have to do anything other than cite section 7 and explain how prop 8 would give certain groups special privileges. You would get into much more convoluted arguments trying to explain how banning gays from marrying is somehow not discriminating.

    Also, if you look at the language, section 7 would also allow the court to accept prop 8 but then ban all marriage in general to avoid special privileges. I agree with your feelings in getting the government out of marriage, but I doubt the courts would take such a route. Still, it would not be out of their authority to do so.

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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Why not? Granted my argument doesn't have any precedent (at least yet), but there is no precedent in the opposite direction either. Considering that the Courts already decided that the constitution prevented banning marriage, there are better than even odds than the court will conclude that Prop 8 is a revision.
    That's debatable. The mere fact that the California Constitution, as interpreted by the California Supreme Court, did not give the California government the power to bar gay marriage before Proposition 8 does not make Proposition 8 automatically revisory in nature. The fact that the only practical impact of Proposition 8 is to empower the government to do what it legally was prohibited from doing before, and that only as regards the sacrament of marriage, gives the Proposition a narrowness and singularity of scope that, per the standards articulated in Livermore, Amador, and McFadden, qualify the Proposition as an Amendment and not a revision.

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Its not like the court would have to do anything other than cite section 7 and explain how prop 8 would give certain groups special privileges. You would get into much more convoluted arguments trying to explain how banning gays from marrying is somehow not discriminating.
    That argument only holds if the change is of such great impact as to amount to a revision rather than an amendment. If the statutory language of Proposition 8 is not revisory in nature, this argument loses all relevance.

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Also, if you look at the language, section 7 would also allow the court to accept prop 8 but then ban all marriage in general to avoid special privileges. I agree with your feelings in getting the government out of marriage, but I doubt the courts would take such a route. Still, it would not be out of their authority to do so.
    Yes it would. That would be an unconscionable and unwarranted usurpation of legislative prerogative by the judiciary--not to mention being an amazingly stupid thing to do.

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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Gays in CA already have access to every civil right under existing Civil Union law.

    The ONLY thing this is about is the word "marriage".
    I can't prove it...but I don't believe anti gay marriage folks are really that concerned with the institution of marriage. I don't believe they are genuinly fearful of how two women getting married 3000 miles away will compromise the fabric of thier marriage. This is not completely about marriage...it is also about denial of thier dissapproval of gays for many. I'll not assume this to be the case with you Jerry, but it is with plenty of anti gay Americans. Fifty years from now...they're going to make movies where anti gay people will be portrayed as filthy bigots standing in the way of the liberation of gays.
    Last edited by Goldwaters; 05-25-09 at 03:42 PM.

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