View Poll Results: Will the CA courts overturn Prop 8?

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  • Yes

    16 47.06%
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    18 52.94%
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Thread: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

  1. #11
    Student Goldwaters's Avatar
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    In 20 years or so we'll see pretty much every state legalize gay marriage, but for now things are the way they are.
    What purpose does it serve to be part of obstructing it then? Why not just save us all a lot of trouble and legal expenses?

  2. #12
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwaters View Post
    The Prop 8 amendment violates Article 1, Section 1, of California's Constitution, which enumerates "inalienable rights" to, among other things, liberty, happiness and privacy.
    An amendment to a constitution is structurally unable to violate that constitution. It is, by definition, an alteration of the form, substance, and terms of that constitution.

    The simplest counter is that Prop 8 substantively declares gay marriage not among the "inalienable rights"--which, as an amendment to the constitution, is perfectly legal and reasonable.

  3. #13
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    The right thing is to respect the will of the people....And its is pure BS to say that the homosexuals have no rights...
    What is pure BS is the canard that people are saying any such thing.

    The will of the people was to pass Prop 8. The Amendment should stand.

  4. #14
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    An amendment to a constitution is structurally unable to violate that constitution. It is, by definition, an alteration of the form, substance, and terms of that constitution.

    The simplest counter is that Prop 8 substantively declares gay marriage not among the "inalienable rights"--which, as an amendment to the constitution, is perfectly legal and reasonable.
    The question isn't about whether the amendment violates the constitution, it's about whether the process in which the amendment was passed was the proper way to amend the constitution.

    This shouldn't be a partisan issue either way, but this is what we get when we rely on the courts to set policy.
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  5. #15
    Student Goldwaters's Avatar
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    What is pure BS is the canard that people are saying any such thing.

    The will of the people was to pass Prop 8. The Amendment should stand.
    Unless of course it's repealed using the following criteria:

    CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 18 AMENDING AND REVISING THE CONSTITUTION

    SEC. 1. The Legislature by rollcall vote entered in the journal, two-thirds of the membership of each house concurring, may propose an amendment or revision of the Constitution and in the same manner may amend or withdraw its proposal. Each amendment shall be so prepared and submitted that it can be voted on separately.

    CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 18 AMENDING AND REVISING THE CONSTITUTION

    SEC. 2. The Legislature by rollcall vote entered in the journal, two-thirds of the membership of each house concurring, may submit at a general election the question whether to call a convention to revise the Constitution. If the majority vote yes on that question, within 6 months the Legislature shall provide for the convention. Delegates to a constitutional convention shall be voters elected from districts as nearly equal in population as may be practicable.

    CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 18 AMENDING AND REVISING THE CONSTITUTION

    SEC. 3. The electors may amend the Constitution by initiative.

    CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 18 AMENDING AND REVISING THE CONSTITUTION

    SEC. 4. A proposed amendment or revision shall be submitted to the electors and if approved by a majority of votes thereon takes effect the day after the election unless the measure provides otherwise. If provisions of 2 or more measures approved at the same election conflict, those of the measure receiving the highest affirmative vote shall prevail.

    I have no doubt a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage bans will eventually pass this way. The writing is on the wall...why fight it unitll then Celticlord?
    Last edited by Goldwaters; 05-24-09 at 12:55 PM.

  6. #16
    activist professor Inferno's Avatar
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Proposition 8 amended the California State Constitution. It cannot be overturned as being unconstitutional. If the courts overturn, they are rewriting the constitution; that is beyond the competence of every court.
    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    The travesty would be for the court to overreach and rewrite the California constitution. That would be the end of the rule of law in California.

    Courts get to say what the law is. Legislatures and voters get to say what the law should be. That is the order of things.
    The Ca Constitution needs to be in line with the US Constitution. If it is not than it need to be rewritten. The CA Prop 8 fight will bring this to the SCOTUS and will see that same sex marriage will be made legal in every state. It could work for the best if CA decides it wants to go against the US Constitution.
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  7. #17
    activist professor Inferno's Avatar
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Where is "marriage" in there?


    I support gay marriage but the fact is once something is done, it's done. The courts would be overstepping their boundaries to try to overturn a constitutional amendment on a constitutional basis.

    In 20 years or so we'll see pretty much every state legalize gay marriage, but for now things are the way they are.
    If Prop 8 is allowed to stand same sex marriage will be in every state sooner than that.
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  8. #18
    activist professor Inferno's Avatar
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    The right thing is to respect the will of the people....And its is pure BS to say that the homosexuals have no rights...
    And allow mob rule. That is why the rule of law is in place. It is a protection to keep the 51% from keeping the 49% from having in any rights at all.
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  9. #19
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    The Ca Constitution needs to be in line with the US Constitution. If it is not than it need to be rewritten. The CA Prop 8 fight will bring this to the SCOTUS and will see that same sex marriage will be made legal in every state. It could work for the best if CA decides it wants to go against the US Constitution.
    The SCOTUS will not say that the US Constitution requires states to allow gay marriage, nor will it even hear such a case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    And allow mob rule. That is why the rule of law is in place. It is a protection to keep the 51% from keeping the 49% from having in any rights at all.
    This is a bit of a broad statement. Yes, there are rules designed to keep the majority from oppressing the minority in some situations. However, the purpose of democracy is to allow the majority to make decisions that affect everyone.

    The question isn't whether 51% can rule over 49% in any situation, it's whether this is a specific case where 51% can't rule over 49%. Nothing indicates that it is.
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  10. #20
    activist professor Inferno's Avatar
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    The SCOTUS will not say that the US Constitution requires states to allow gay marriage, nor will it even hear such a case.



    This is a bit of a broad statement. Yes, there are rules designed to keep the majority from oppressing the minority in some situations. However, the purpose of democracy is to allow the majority to make decisions that affect everyone.

    The question isn't whether 51% can rule over 49% in any situation, it's whether this is a specific case where 51% can't rule over 49%. Nothing indicates that it is.
    That is what the people said about Roe v Wade and Doe v Bolton. The SCOTUS will have to hear this eventually. The ACLU and Lambda Law are already framing cases for just that occasion.
    Democracy is the road to socialism. Karl Marx
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