View Poll Results: Will the CA courts overturn Prop 8?

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  • Yes

    16 47.06%
  • No

    18 52.94%
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Thread: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

  1. #101
    Count Smackula
    rathi's Avatar
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Yes it would. That would be an unconscionable and unwarranted usurpation of legislative prerogative by the judiciary--not to mention being an amazingly stupid thing to do.
    The California constitution EXPLICITLY states such an action is allowed.

    Privileges or immunities granted by the Legislature may be altered or
    revoked.

  2. #102
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    The California constitution EXPLICITLY states such an action is allowed.
    Revocation would require legislation or ballot initiative, not judicial fiat. You're grasping at straws on this one.

  3. #103
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwaters View Post
    Okay, fair enough. How about it put this way...the prevailing social values in America in 50 years will likely have us looking upon anti gay folks in the same way we look at people who opposed inter-racial marriage in the 40's and 50's. And people who oppossed the rights of blacks earlier. And the men who opposed the right of a woman to vote. And folks who supported the legality of slavery. And so on.

    Can you admit that gay marriage, nationwide by state, will be allowed in most if not all states eventually? Or do you think otherwise?
    Why do you think this matters? Why do you think that legal decisions should be based on what the court predicts may happen 50 years in the future? That's pretty much antithetical to the idea of the court system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwaters View Post
    Does that mean you've studied slavery, the early women's rights movement, and the civil rights movement...and found aspects of slavery, denial of women's rights, and denial of civil rights to be moraly and philosophically sound?

    I agree that the most oppressive bigotry comes from someone, or a group, that thinks they're moraly supreme...like the anti gay marriage folks.
    Most of the anti-civil rights decisions that are decried now are only bad because the context of their decisions is rejected today. Legally, they're pretty sound for the most part.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #104
    Student Goldwaters's Avatar
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    It means I've studied those things and found the actual history to be very different from the superficial pastiche of moralizing most people put upon them.
    Groucho Marx said it best..."You can believe your eyes or you can believe me". I admit that I have not read any history regarding slavery, women's rights, and civil rights that contains information that changes my opinion that slavery, denial of women's rights, and denial of civil rights are unacceptable to society. I'm genuinly interested in some of the books you've read that have allowed you to obtain a historical perspective that includes a less demonic portrayal of slave owners, chauvanists, and racists.
    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Cute. Include the pro-gay marriage folk in that sentence and you have something worth reaction besides scorn and contempt.
    Pro gay marriage folks want simply the right to marry, which deprives no others of any rights. Anti gay marriage folks want to regulate the lives of others, and deny rights to others that they enjoy themselves. My statement was fine the way it was.

  5. #105
    Student Goldwaters's Avatar
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Why do you think this matters?
    It only matters to me. I'm curious about Celticlord's opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Most of the anti-civil rights decisions that are decried now are only bad because the context of their decisions is rejected today. Legally, they're pretty sound for the most part.
    I was asking him a question that was not of a legal nature. Sorry, I'm not trying to be short or anything, but right now, I'm trying explore a larger ethical theme including slavery, women's rights, civil rights, and gay marriage, not what he considers legally sound. So far he's putting up with me.

  6. #106
    Sage
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    All this fuss over a word that too many "normal" people don't respect anyway....and the gay community has proven itself to be its own worst enemy when it comes to achieving their goals.

    I predict the courts will overturn Prop. 8.
    It should never have been on the ballot in the first place. Majority rule is often wrong, and it is up to the courts to remind us of that....
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  7. #107
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwaters View Post
    Pro gay marriage folks want simply the right to marry, which deprives no others of any rights.
    Actually, I already have a ball and chain and even if I was silly enough to want two, I'd be looking the other way, if you know what I mean.

    What I want is this issue to go away as fast as possible because, first off, you're right, it's no one's business who marries whom, except for Who and Whom. And secondly, there's a train wreck coming like this nation hasn't seen since the Democrats started the Civil War, and the issues in that are issues that will lead to either the permanent demise of the United States or produce a rebirth of freedom that will be nearly impossible to stop.

  8. #108
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwaters View Post
    Make it the "marriage is between a man and a woman" card and you've got a deal!
    I wouldn't get anything in return.

  9. #109
    Dorset Patriot
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
    It is getting to the final days. The decision on CA's Prop 8 is coming up this week. Will the courts stand up for civil rights as they always have. Will they fight for the 4% of Americans that have no voice? Will they allow the mob rule that can be an ugly thing?

    I do believe that the courts will do the right thing and overturn Prop 8!
    Let's hope not, although judicial activism is not unlikely.

    the right thing is to uphold the rule of law, the constitution and separation of powers and not let the ends destroy any attempt at justice and right in the means.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  10. #110
    Student Goldwaters's Avatar
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    Re: Will CA do the right thing and overturn Prop 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I wouldn't get anything in return.
    You'd get the satisfaction of demonstrating how compassionate Conservatives are towards thier fellow humans.

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