View Poll Results: Which of the following reforms do our prisons need?

Voters
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  • Non-violent crimes should not typically result in a prison sentence

    19 51.35%
  • The government should take more action to ensure prisoners don't hurt or rape each other

    26 70.27%
  • The government should take more action to curtail gang activity and racialist activity in prisons

    26 70.27%
  • Drugs should be legalized and all nonviolent drug offenders should be freed from prison

    20 54.05%
  • None; prisoners are sub-human scum who don't deserve even the most basic rights

    0 0%
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Thread: Prison reform

  1. #51
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    Re: Prison reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Don't you think these kind of crimes would rise if people knew they were not gonna be locked up? People that do break ins do not have money to start with so where is the restitution to the victims gonna come from? What kind of restitution are we talking about here?

    Also what happens if they do not do their community service? Do they get locked up or what?
    Well, let's say that someone breaks into a house and steals $10K worth of stuff. The judge could order them to pay $30K ($10K to the victim and $20K in fines to the state), do 500 hours of free community service, and live in a halfway home until the restitution is complete.

    If the person is unable to pay the debt, they can either get a government-approved job in the private sector, or do additional hours of (paid) community service at whatever rate the government ordinarily pays people for that job. And they're still living in the halfway home until it's completely paid off. If they refuse to pay the fine and/or work, then they are never leaving the halfway home.

    Seems like a more reasonable alternative to five years of sexual slavery in prison.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 05-25-09 at 12:17 AM.
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  2. #52
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    Re: Prison reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Heavy fines, living under house arrest in their own home and/or in a place similar to a halfway home, ankle bracelets, no television, limited internet access, and limited visitation rights.

    Basically, a place where they could be watched closely without the trauma of living in a tiny cage with rapists.
    But to some a halfway house type setting would be a nice thing. I mean having a place to sleep and eat is one reason why so many folks that commit petty crimes are not scared of getting caught. I have even heard of homeless people commiting crimes just to go to jail.

    While I agree with this concept there must be some type of work place programs in place to lift these people up and give them jobs and force them to go to work. Of course then comes the thing about these criminals are gonna take away jobs from law abiding citizens. That does not seem fair to me.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Prison reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    But to some a halfway house type setting would be a nice thing. I mean having a place to sleep and eat is one reason why so many folks that commit petty crimes are not scared of getting caught.
    They have a place to sleep and eat in prison too. I find it repulsive to dangle the threat of daily beatings and sodomy over someone's head to get them to avoid crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali
    I have even heard of homeless people commiting crimes just to go to jail.
    People who do such things are almost always mentally ill; their actions have nothing to do with the treatment in prisons. There are plenty of homeless shelters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali
    While I agree with this concept there must be some type of work place programs in place to lift these people up and give them jobs and force them to go to work. Of course then comes the thing about these criminals are gonna take away jobs from law abiding citizens. That does not seem fair to me.
    If the government can save the taxpayers money by finding convicts who are willing to do the same work at a lower price than non-convicts, that's good.
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  4. #54
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    Re: Prison reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well, let's say that someone breaks into a house and steals $10K worth of stuff. The judge could order them to pay $30K ($10K to the victim and $20K in fines to the state), do 500 hours of free community service, and live in a halfway home until the restitution is complete.

    If the person is unable to pay the debt, they can either get a government-approved job in the private sector, or do additional hours of (paid) community service at whatever rate the government ordinarily pays people for that job. And they're still living in the halfway home until it's completely paid off. If they refuse to pay the fine and/or work, then they are never leaving the halfway home.

    Seems like a more reasonable alternative to five years of sexual slavery in prison.

    So we are gonna pretty much award these folks paying jobs working for the gov.? But all the money would go the debt they owe? What happens after their debt is paid? Do they get to keep working for the city or whatever?

    If they never pay they just get to live -for FREE- in the halfway house? So in other words we are gonna reward you with a roof over your head even if you are not willing to work? Sounds like a nice plan for the criminals.

    Do not get me wrong because I think you have some good ideas but have you ever saw some of these halfway houses? I happen to have a cousin in one and it is VERY nice. Does not seem like punishment at all. More like being sent off to camp or something.
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  5. #55
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    Re: Prison reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    So we are gonna pretty much award these folks paying jobs working for the gov.? But all the money would go the debt they owe? What happens after their debt is paid? Do they get to keep working for the city or whatever?
    That would be between the convict and whatever level of government handles that job. Ideally, yes, I'd like to encourage people to work at the same job after they are released, as it would reduce the chance of recidivism.

    As far as awarding them paying jobs in the first place, keep in mind that if people are REQUIRED to work as a condition for their eventual release, the salary will undoubtedly be lower than for a "normal" worker. This could help the government provide useful services at a lower cost to taxpayers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali
    If they never pay they just get to live -for FREE- in the halfway house? So in other words we are gonna reward you with a roof over your head even if you are not willing to work? Sounds like a nice plan for the criminals.
    Prisons "reward" people with a roof over their heads, even if they aren't willing to work, as well. And although I don't have any statistics on this, I imagine it's a great deal cheaper to keep someone in a halfway home with an ankle bracelet than to keep them in prison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali
    Do not get me wrong because I think you have some good ideas but have you ever saw some of these halfway houses? I happen to have a cousin in one and it is VERY nice. Does not seem like punishment at all. More like being sent off to camp or something.
    Perhaps they're nice compared to prison (as they should be), but there's no reason to make them "very nice." No television, monitored/limited internet access, limited visitation rights, video cameras installed, dorm/barracks style bedrooms, etc. That would still provide a punishment without the hellish conditions found in many prisons.
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  6. #56
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    Re: Prison reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If the government can save the taxpayers money by finding convicts who are willing to do the same work at a lower price than non-convicts, that's good.
    Do you know how hard it is to get a job working for the city in most places? While your idea is a good one it is not fair to people who obey the laws and want those jobs. Are we also gonna give them all the great bennies that come with this?

    I find your ideas nobel and nice but I will not support anything that will take away jobs that non-criminals need and want. I would much rather see my gov. hire a woman that is living in a homeless shelter or a man that is down on his luck living in a shelter for these jobs. Not petty criminals. There are plenty of folks that obey the law that need these types of jobs and I refuse to support my tax dollars taking away jobs that we can give to these people.
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  7. #57
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    Re: Prison reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Do you know how hard it is to get a job working for the city in most places? While your idea is a good one it is not fair to people who obey the laws and want those jobs. Are we also gonna give them all the great bennies that come with this?

    I find your ideas nobel and nice but I will not support anything that will take away jobs that non-criminals need and want. I would much rather see my gov. hire a woman that is living in a homeless shelter or a man that is down on his luck living in a shelter for these jobs. Not petty criminals. There are plenty of folks that obey the law that need these types of jobs and I refuse to support my tax dollars taking away jobs that we can give to these people.
    If there are some non-convicts who are willing to do the jobs for the same low wages as convicts, that's fine. I'm not suggesting that everyone else be excluded from these jobs. I'm only suggesting that most non-cons will not be willing to do the same job for as low of a wage. The government should provide its services at the lowest cost to taxpayers...it is not in business just to keep people employed.

    Furthermore, assisting convicts with finding jobs will greatly reduce the recidivism rate for most property crimes (and even some violent crimes as well). These crimes are generally committed by people who don't have any "real" job, and who don't really have any prospects of finding one.
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  8. #58
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    Re: Prison reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Don't you think these kind of crimes would rise if people knew they were not gonna be locked up? People that do break ins do not have money to start with so where is the restitution to the victims gonna come from? What kind of restitution are we talking about here?
    If they do not have the money to pay restitution then they are going to have to get jobs, either working in the private sector or for the state, doing whatever needs doing, including hard physical labor. The pay will be low, the hours will be hard and 50% of the money they make will go to their victims right off the top.

    Also what happens if they do not do their community service? Do they get locked up or what?
    I'd be more than happy to stick a GPS tracker on their ankle and when they don't show up to do their scheduled community service, the police roll around, pick them up no matter what they're doing and tack on a hefty fine and maybe even more service to their tab.
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    Re: Prison reform

    We are a prison nation! We have the highest percentage of population in prison than any other country on the planet.

  10. #60
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    Re: Prison reform

    Quote Originally Posted by creativedreams View Post
    We are a prison nation! We have the highest percentage of population in prison than any other country on the planet.
    Yes but we also have the highest population of people who finger bang their pets as well. See the correlation? Well do you?
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