View Poll Results: Which of the following reforms do our prisons need?

Voters
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  • Non-violent crimes should not typically result in a prison sentence

    19 51.35%
  • The government should take more action to ensure prisoners don't hurt or rape each other

    26 70.27%
  • The government should take more action to curtail gang activity and racialist activity in prisons

    26 70.27%
  • Drugs should be legalized and all nonviolent drug offenders should be freed from prison

    20 54.05%
  • None; prisoners are sub-human scum who don't deserve even the most basic rights

    0 0%
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Thread: Prison reform

  1. #41
    Stigmatized! End R Word! Kali's Avatar
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    Re: Prison reform

    What exact kind of punishment would the folks who commit non-violent crimes get? I mean we cannot just do nothing. Would it be stiff fines, classes, etc? What?
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  2. #42
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    Re: Prison reform

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    If you change the law, then it's not breaking it anymore.

    And decriminalizing very minor things might be a way of improving prisons while also improving society and saving money.
    But where does one draw the line? B&E no longer a crime? Shoplifiting no longer a crime? Jacking a car no longer a crime? There is a huge list of non-violent crimes.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Prison reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    What exact kind of punishment would the folks who commit non-violent crimes get? I mean we cannot just do nothing. Would it be stiff fines, classes, etc? What?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    But where does one draw the line? B&E no longer a crime? Shoplifiting no longer a crime? Jacking a car no longer a crime? There is a huge list of non-violent crimes.
    Are you asking what is possible, or what I think?

    Anything is possible. Line-drawing wouldn't be any harder than it was to draw the lines we have now.

    I think that the vast majority of financial crimes should be punished with house arrest and garnishment of wages until 2-3X the cost of the crime is paid back. Forcing people to work for the government is inefficient, so they should be able to work wherever they like.

    Property crimes that involve any sort of physical danger are another matter, and the lower level things like shoplifting have such a low level of detection that the risk of being forced to pay back 3X the cost would not be enough to have a deterrent effect.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #44
    Stigmatized! End R Word! Kali's Avatar
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    Re: Prison reform

    It would not work if we decided to do something like this in reguards to petty crimes. I mean people would just think this is a breeze and would keep stealing.

    Most folks who are stealing are not folks that are working so you are not making sense to me.

    How are these folks gonna ever be able to pay back debts when most of the people that commit these crimes do not work?

    Do you really think house arrest is punishment? All the criminals have to do is invite their crew over to party and think about ways to get around things. Your whole idea would bring House Party to a whole other crazy level. lol
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  5. #45
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    Re: Prison reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    It would not work if we decided to do something like this in reguards to petty crimes. I mean people would just think this is a breeze and would keep stealing.

    Most folks who are stealing are not folks that are working so you are not making sense to me.

    How are these folks gonna ever be able to pay back debts when most of the people that commit these crimes do not work?

    Do you really think house arrest is punishment? All the criminals have to do is invite their crew over to party and think about ways to get around things. Your whole idea would bring House Party to a whole other crazy level. lol
    Did you actually read my post? I addressed pretty much every one of your questions.

    This would be limited to financial crimes, e.g. embezzlement, mail fraud, etc. The people who commit these types of crimes are generally white-collar folks. And yes, house arrest is a very effective type of punishment for most people, as is garnishment of wages.

    For physical and low-level property crimes, the current punishments would remain in place.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  6. #46
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    Re: Prison reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    What exact kind of punishment would the folks who commit non-violent crimes get? I mean we cannot just do nothing. Would it be stiff fines, classes, etc? What?
    Usually restitution to the victims and community service, that kind of thing.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Prison reform

    I didnt read the entier thread so forgive me if Im repeating what others have said.

    It seems to me that our prison system is as much to keep people out of sight out of mind and alot of people just do not care what happens since it no longer interferes with their lives. While some could argue that some of these people deserve whatever they recieve I feel we are letting humanity down.

    I have a close family member that spent time in prison and heard from them about the conditions they are put in. When you see what they are subject to you wonder how we could ever expect anyone to come out a model citizen. Prisons are stife with rape, beatings, verbal abuse, murder, fear, and intimidation. Murder someone in prison and what do they give you? As little at 2 more years. They just dont care what happens to prisoners. You are no longer a person.

    Prisoners live hour by hour in fear of other prisoners. You learn to either prey on others or become a victim yourself yet we expect them to act properly after years of such confinment.

  8. #48
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    Re: Prison reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    What exact kind of punishment would the folks who commit non-violent crimes get? I mean we cannot just do nothing. Would it be stiff fines, classes, etc? What?
    Heavy fines, living under house arrest in their own home and/or in a place similar to a halfway home, ankle bracelets, no television, limited internet access, and limited visitation rights.

    Basically, a place where they could be watched closely without the trauma of living in a tiny cage with rapists.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 05-25-09 at 12:03 AM.
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  9. #49
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    Re: Prison reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Well marijuana is produced. I don't think the mere production of a drug should be grounds for sending somebody to jail. Hard drugs? That is a different story. I have never heard of a marijuana or shrooms overdose. I've heard of ecstasy overdoses, heroin overdoses, crack overdoses etc. I doubt many people here would be anywhere near okay with a company that produces a product which is directly responsible for the deaths of thousands. If cigarettes could kill you after a single use do you know how illegal they would be?

    Now bring up how drugs like meth don't kill people and I'll show you how when morticians write down causes of death. They don't write down "choice". They write down : "Crystalmeth overdose".

    Before anybody decides to bring up a car analogy think about this. What do you think the government would do to a company who's product was built with 0 safety precautions or any kind? That is exactly what drugs like heroin and cocaine are. They are drugs who do not guarantee any kind of safety. Name me a single car that meets not a single standard of safety for it's driver? As much as Libertarians like to deny it. It is not in anybody's interest to allow public access to hard drugs regardless of how regulated they are. Pure & Simple.

    Create versions of these drugs that can not give people overdoses while maintaining the high and I'll be on their side. Until then. Tough luck.
    The main reason why people overdose on drugs is because they are getting fluctuating potencys, because they are buying from the black market. Overdoses from MDMA (ecstasy) are very rare.

    The Psychological and Physiological Effects of MDMA on Normal Volunteers, by Joseph Downing, from Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, Vol. 18/4 1986.

    This study examined the effects of MDMA on 21 healthy volunteers, including 13 men and 8 women, between the ages of 20 and 58. Their average age was 39. The volunteers had all previously used MDMA, an average of 8 times. All thought they had benefited from it and had recommended its use to others. Doses were chosen by subjects and ranged from 0.8 to 1.9 mg/kg of subjects' body weight, averaging 165 mg. There were no added doses.

    Downing notes that oral doses administered in therapy are less than 1 per cent of the LD50 (the dose that kills 50 per cent of rats or mice given the drug), implying a high margin of safety.
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  10. #50
    Stigmatized! End R Word! Kali's Avatar
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    Re: Prison reform

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Usually restitution to the victims and community service, that kind of thing.
    Don't you think these kind of crimes would rise if people knew they were not gonna be locked up? People that do break ins do not have money to start with so where is the restitution to the victims gonna come from? What kind of restitution are we talking about here?

    Also what happens if they do not do their community service? Do they get locked up or what?
    ~Following My Own Flow~

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