View Poll Results: Read the below and respond acordingly

Voters
35. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I think we can discuss abortion without rancor

    14 40.00%
  • No, I think the issue is too divisive

    10 28.57%
  • I think we can do better, but it will always be an angry debate

    11 31.43%
Page 5 of 12 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 115

Thread: Is President Obama Right in This?

  1. #41
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 10:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Is there a real chance that we can debate abortion without seeing the other side as villains? Can we debate the topic without emotions overwhelming respect for those who disagree with us?
    Impossible for a very simple reason. The two sides aren't talking about the same issue. It appears that way, but it's not. The anti-abortion crowd is actually anti-slut. So the discussion is centered around that. The pro-abortion group is centered around a woman's freedom to have an abortion. How can you get both sides to debate civilly when they won't even discuss the same topic?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #42
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    04-04-14 @ 01:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,233

    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Boring diatribe ignored.
    Your unwillingness to debate the subject when it gets tough is noted.


    The only ignorance here is the fact that you - like the simple country dweller that you are -
    An attempt at personal insult, interesting but not an argument.

    Personally I take it as a compliment from the likes of you.
    can not comprehend sentences that apparently aren't written by dead guys hell bent on boring the **** out of us :
    I'm sure movies from living wankers are much more informative.

    My statement stands. The majority of people behind the pro-life movement are FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS. If you don't like this then well. Not my fault. Deal with the statistics.
    That wasn't my point, it was that you pretend to know what you are talking about but you called Catholic fundamentalist Christians.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  3. #43
    Sage
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    08-27-09 @ 06:41 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,344

    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    How can you get both sides to debate civilly when they won't even discuss the same topic?
    Call me crazy, but one side refraining from recasting the other side's arguments (especially in the pejorative) might be one way.

  4. #44
    Advisor Burning Giraffe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Burgaw, NC
    Last Seen
    07-27-10 @ 06:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    357

    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    No.
    President Obama is whistling Dixie...
    As a people we are simply not that civilized.
    Maybe 100 years from now ???
    This actually does have to do with civilization. There are just two different cultural directions here, pulling in opposite directions. On the one side, you have people who believe that killing children is wrong, that its always wrong, and that just because you are a mother, doesn't give you the right to subvert the rights of your baby. On the other side, are people that believe that whatever is going on inside a woman's body during a pregnancy is her business and if she wants to kill her child, the government shouldn't have the authority to stop her. It's her body, its her choice.

    Frankly, I find abortion to be nauseatingly barbaric, not to mention intellectually unethical, and politically inconsistent (if not antithetical) with both human and civil rights. That said, I'm a bit of a cynical son of a bitch when it comes to this issue. If barbaric people are willfully protecting society from the spread of their DNA, maybe that's a good thing. Then again....

    I've had too much experience with abortion not to despise it, but also too much experience not to despise the people who choose them. As human beings we make all kinds of terrible decisions in our lives and people that have had abortions, what they need is healing, compassion, and understanding, not condemnation. I compare abortion with the Rwandan genocides. There were so many people involved in that terrible situation that the government is allowing people caught up in the massacres to go free, so long as they admit what they have done, confess to their community, and demonstrate regret. Churches in the communities are working to foster the healing process through reconciliation and support. Good people can fall into the most barbaric behaviors when its all around them, when it seems like its' "OK". And they too become victims of their own potential for the barbaric. Many women suffer their entire lives with the unbearable shame of what they have done, and condemning them is just as bad as condemning the terrible things drug addicts and alcoholics have done in their past. People that have had abortions need the same support and understanding as recovering addicts.
    Last edited by Burning Giraffe; 05-19-09 at 04:13 AM.
    There is nothing more dangerous to the liberty of Man than a Government or a Religion seizing upon the strings of an overdeveloped herd instinct amongst the people.

  5. #45
    Student Makedde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Tangled In Jon's Carpet Of Chest Hair
    Last Seen
    06-05-09 @ 09:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    219

    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Is there a real chance that we can debate abortion without seeing the other side as villains? Can we debate the topic without emotions overwhelming respect for those who disagree with us?
    Of course we can, but both sides have to be willing to sit down and listen to each others point of view. It does no good for lifers to scream 'baby killers' and 'murderers' and for the choicers to insult the lifers. That gets us nowhere. We can reduce the number of abortions if we work together, the trouble is, the lifers think the only solution is to ban abortion altogether. They dont see the bigger issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Some can--most can't.
    Yes, I think we have established that.

  6. #46
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-06-09 @ 01:03 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    11,946

    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Forgive me for thinking your high horse is full of ****.
    Thank you for proving my point. Not all killing of human beings is called murder--a few of those quotes you have are about Obama's defense of allowing babies who survive an abortion and are alive outside the womb to die of neglect. Sorry--that IS murder of a born human being. I have always been careful to call abortion "legal killing" --which it is. I have, however, called it "morally murder"--but that's a different position altogether.

  7. #47
    User
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    WI
    Last Seen
    07-22-09 @ 11:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    42

    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Is there a real chance that we can debate abortion without seeing the other side as villains? Can we debate the topic without emotions overwhelming respect for those who disagree with us?
    In response to your questions, I would have to respond "no". It's clear, especially after reading all of the responses so far, that each side reduces the other to "villians" in most instances. It is also clear that emotions run so high in this topic that, in my opinion, people narrowly, if at all, show respect to another with an opposing view. Very few people seem to be willing to step back and allow another individual to have his or her view be their own; it always seems to come down to an attempt to "win" from both sides.

    In response to the poll, I chose that I think we could do better, and I do. I just am less likely to believe we will until individuals can become more accepting of one another. I doubt my grandchildren (if I have any) will see that happen in their lifetime, which means I know it won't happen in mine.

    -k
    Care to read a little? Fiction and articles viewable at:
    http://www.associatedcontent.com/use.../kj_young.html

  8. #48
    Guru
    tlmorg02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Louisville, Ky
    Last Seen
    07-23-15 @ 09:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    3,347

    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Is there a real chance that we can debate abortion without seeing the other side as villains? Can we debate the topic without emotions overwhelming respect for those who disagree with us?
    I really do believe that this issue can be discussed in a civil manner by ADULTS. People who resort to name calling and the like are not mature enough to discuss the philosophy behind the stances. It requires a person to open enough to facts to be able to listen to the evidence provided by the otherside and give it deserved weight. If one is a zealot, then reason will elude them and they have no business attempting a logical conversation.

  9. #49
    Liberal Fascist For Life!

    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:38 PM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    86,451
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I really do believe that this issue can be discussed in a civil manner by ADULTS. People who resort to name calling and the like are not mature enough to discuss the philosophy behind the stances. It requires a person to open enough to facts to be able to listen to the evidence provided by the otherside and give it deserved weight. If one is a zealot, then reason will elude them and they have no business attempting a logical conversation.
    I understand what you are saying, and don't disagree entirely. I have had some pleasant discussions both in this thread, and in another one in the Breaking News section, with people who disagree with my stance on abortion rights.

    But...as we talked about a bit in this thread, the big problem I think is that both sides are approaching the discussion from unassailable moral positions. Anti-abortion people feel that abortion is murder, and therefore clearly murder. Pro abortion rights people see abortion as a personal rights issue, and the government should not take away rights. With that separation of viewpoints, it makes it pretty much impossible to find common grounds. So we yell our points back and forth, without ever really being able to comprehend why those on the other side cannot see reason.

  10. #50
    Guru
    tlmorg02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Louisville, Ky
    Last Seen
    07-23-15 @ 09:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    3,347

    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I understand what you are saying, and don't disagree entirely. I have had some pleasant discussions both in this thread, and in another one in the Breaking News section, with people who disagree with my stance on abortion rights.

    But...as we talked about a bit in this thread, the big problem I think is that both sides are approaching the discussion from unassailable moral positions. Anti-abortion people feel that abortion is murder, and therefore clearly murder. Pro abortion rights people see abortion as a personal rights issue, and the government should not take away rights. With that separation of viewpoints, it makes it pretty much impossible to find common grounds. So we yell our points back and forth, without ever really being able to comprehend why those on the other side cannot see reason.
    I always look at abortion in this regard, abortion is essentially murder. In reality, one is taking the life of a growing fetus. Still, I support abortion in the first trimester for the basic fact that the fetus is unable or unlikely, I should say, to survive outside of the mother's womb, therefor the fetuor zygote is not an independent life any more than a malignant tumor. Once past the second trimester the chances of the fetus surviving increase dramatically and the baby is in fact more of an independent life. The common ground between the two camps should revolve around preventing unwanted pregnancy and determing in what circumstances abortion is acceptable and unacceptable. Now there will undoubtedly be those fringe persons, who speak the loudest, that will not give an inch. The truth remains that the majority of Americans believe that in the case of rape or incest and to some extent in case of death of the mother, abortion should remain legal. Late-term abortions, however are not looked upon favorably and the majority of Americans agree that such procedures should be banned.

    This topic is a hot one, but one in which people may discuss if one places themselves in the shoes of the otherside. In doing so you may find areas of the argument that may indeed be open for civil discussion.

Page 5 of 12 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •