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  • Yes, I think we can discuss abortion without rancor

    14 40.00%
  • No, I think the issue is too divisive

    10 28.57%
  • I think we can do better, but it will always be an angry debate

    11 31.43%
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Thread: Is President Obama Right in This?

  1. #91
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    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Call me crazy, but one side refraining from recasting the other side's arguments (especially in the pejorative) might be one way.
    Irrelevant when the issue both are talking about isn't the same issue.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #92
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    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    I don't agree with late term abortions of an ACTUAL baby. (10 fingers, 10 toes, penis, or vagina) kind of thing.
    fingers, toes, sex organs and much more are there by 8 weeks gestation. It is an ACTUAL baby.

    Seriously--google "8 week fetus" in google images. It even looks like a baby with skinny arms and a big head.
    Last edited by Felicity; 05-19-09 at 09:13 PM.

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    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    What miscarriage? A woman may be too physically weak to give birth, weak heart.....number of reasons.
    Okay. I won't quibble.

    But the underlying urgent medical condition should be REAL, not an excuse to murder the baby.

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    The question was if the baby lives and mother dies, do you allow the abortion.
    All righty, I failed to see that interpretation. No one is required to sacrifice their life for another, that's a voluntary act, so therefore it's morally acceptable for a mother to kill the child within her if that child is going to cause her mortal or even, I'd allow, crippling injury.

    The situation you describe is rare and usually preventable with proper prenatal care, and, oh, by the way, under no circumstances does what I just say construe any justification for Intact D&C, since that procedure is completely unnecessary and the LIVING baby can be extracted faster and easier by a simple c-section, with less stress to the mother.

  4. #94
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    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    So, is it then wrong to remove a vegetative person from life-support? Do not say it is different,
    Welcome to the First Amendment, I get to choose what I say, not you.

    It's different.

    With no intervention a healthy baby growing inside a healthy mother will produce a healthy live birth.

    A zucchini on electro-mechanical life support or requiring intensive constant manual care with zero prognosis for recovery has no future to speak of. Supporting that husk demands the expenditure of other human lives for as long as it's permitted to consume resources.

  5. #95
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    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    It's funny to see people's definition of life.
    I haven't defined life.

    Give me a while and maybe I can dig up a Mel Brooks Moment. Maybe not.


    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    Abstinence is a great thought, but in practice.. doesn't really work all that well.. read up the studies on Bush's abstinence programs in public school.
    Didn't say a thing about abstinence.

    I'm not Bill Clinton, I know what the meaning of "is" is, and what "sex" is, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    I don't agree with late term abortions of an ACTUAL baby. (10 fingers, 10 toes, penis, or vagina) kind of thing.
    What if the baby has both penis and vagina, is that different?

    What if the baby has 12 fingers, or 8?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    The removal of a clump of cells that are dividing in some woman's womb... well... not so much the same as the cute cuddly little baby that comes out of a woman's birth canal...
    Oh. By "clump of cells" your euphemizing "baby" so you can now discuss KILLING the "baby" without hurting your own sensibilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    Sorry, but those of us that look at this problem logically will never see a bunch of cells dividing as a human baby. Just not going to happen.
    I do examine the problem logically.

    That's all I've used. That, and the proper words to promote the meaning I'm expressing.

    Why can't you do that?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    Continue on though, it's funny watching you guys say... "IT IS TOO A LIFE!!!" and others say "IS NOT!!!" I feel like we're all accomplishing so much on this one.
    Well, you people can't admit the truth, because you'd have to then take the next step, and admit you're wrong.

    Abortion kills a life.

    It's that simple.

  6. #96
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    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Well, I thought of this instead of Mel Brooks. Good enough for ya?

    Monty Python: The Meaning of Life

    Harry Blackitt: Look at them, bloody Catholics, filling the bloody world up with bloody people they can't afford to bloody feed.
    Mrs. Blackitt: What are we dear?
    Harry Blackitt: Protestant, and fiercely proud of it.
    Mrs. Blackitt: Hmm. Well, why do they have so many children?
    Harry Blackitt: Because... every time they have sexual intercourse, they have to have a baby.
    Mrs. Blackitt: But it's the same with us, Harry.
    Harry Blackitt: What do you mean?
    Mrs. Blackitt: Well, I mean, we've got two children, and we've had sexual intercourse twice.
    Harry Blackitt: That's not the point. We could have it any time we wanted.
    Mrs. Blackitt: Really?
    Harry Blackitt: Oh, yes, and, what's more, because we don't believe in all that Papist claptrap, we can take precautions.
    Mrs. Blackitt: What, you mean... lock the door?
    Harry Blackitt: No, no. I mean, because we are members of the Protestant Reformed Church, which successfully challenged the autocratic power of the Papacy in the mid-sixteenth century, we can wear little rubber devices to prevent issue.
    Mrs. Blackitt: What d'you mean?
    Harry Blackitt: I could, if I wanted, have sexual intercourse with you...
    Mrs. Blackitt: Oh, yes, Harry.
    Harry Blackitt: ...and, by wearing a rubber sheath over my old feller, I could insure... that, when I came off, you would not be impregnated.
    Mrs. Blackitt: Ooh.
    Harry Blackitt: That's what being a Protestant's all about. That's why it's the church for me. That's why it's the church for anyone who respects the individual and the individual's right to decide for him or herself. When Martin Luther nailed his protest up to the church door in fifteen-seventeen, he may not have realised the full significance of what he was doing, but four hundred years later, thanks to him, my dear, I can wear whatever I want on my John Thomas...
    [sniff]
    Harry Blackitt: ... and, Protestantism doesn't stop at the simple condom. Oh, no. I can wear French Ticklers if I want.
    Mrs. Blackitt: You what?
    Harry Blackitt: French Ticklers. Black Mambos. Crocodile Ribs. Sheaths that are designed not only to protect, but also to enhance the stimulation of sexual congress.
    Mrs. Blackitt: Have you got one?
    Harry Blackitt: Have I got one? Uh, well, no, but I can go down the road any time I want and walk into Harry's and hold my head up high and say in a loud, steady voice, 'Harry, I want you to sell me a condom. In fact, today, I think I'll have a French Tickler, for I am a Protestant.'
    Mrs. Blackitt: Well, why don't you?
    Harry Blackitt: But they - Well, they cannot, 'cause their church never made the great leap out of the Middle Ages and the domination of alien Episcopal supremacy.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 05-19-09 at 09:35 PM.

  7. #97
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    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    I haven't defined life.

    Give me a while and maybe I can dig up a Mel Brooks Moment. Maybe not.




    Didn't say a thing about abstinence.

    I'm not Bill Clinton, I know what the meaning of "is" is, and what "sex" is, too.



    What if the baby has both penis and vagina, is that different?

    What if the baby has 12 fingers, or 8?



    Oh. By "clump of cells" your euphemizing "baby" so you can now discuss KILLING the "baby" without hurting your own sensibilities.



    I do examine the problem logically.

    That's all I've used. That, and the proper words to promote the meaning I'm expressing.

    Why can't you do that?



    Well, you people can't admit the truth, because you'd have to then take the next step, and admit you're wrong.

    Abortion kills a life.

    It's that simple.
    I'm questioning the ability to call a mass of cells dividing a life.

    By defining life such as that.. we could call cancer life. Both are non-thinking clumps of cells that divide and are a mass.

    Last edited by stevenb; 05-19-09 at 09:49 PM.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

  8. #98
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    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    I'm questioning the ability to call a mass of cells dividing a life.
    "A life"?

    No.

    "Alive"?

    Yes.

    Do learn English, it's the language of the modern world.

  9. #99
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    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    "A life"?

    No.

    "Alive"?

    Yes.

    Do learn English, it's the language of the modern world.
    Didn't you and I already go over all of this?

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    Re: Is President Obama Right in This?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Didn't you and I already go over all of this?
    If we have, you lost.

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