View Poll Results: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

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  • Marijuana

    67 81.71%
  • Cocaine

    36 43.90%
  • LSD

    38 46.34%
  • Meth

    30 36.59%
  • Prescription drugs

    33 40.24%
  • Psychedelic mushrooms

    44 53.66%
  • Ecstasy

    35 42.68%
  • Opium

    38 46.34%
  • other

    28 34.15%
  • None of the above

    14 17.07%
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Thread: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

  1. #201
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You know Jerry, I hate meth too but I understand that no amount of saying "its bad" is going to stop some people from doing it.

    Real life examples of fail are needed to show others what not to do.
    So you believe that no amount or strategy of intervention would curtail such activity in the slightest?
    Last edited by scourge99; 05-20-09 at 01:32 AM.
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  2. #202
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    So you believe that no amount or strategy of intervention would curtail such activity in the slightest?
    Education is about the only thing that will curtail usage.

    Even that isn't foolproof. I had a whole house of meth heads living right behind me at my old place and even though I knew what they were doing I couldn't stop them nor could the police.

    Some people will see what meth addicts lives are like and understand that it will **** them up and others will not.

    It being illegal hasn't stopped anything.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #203
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Education is about the only thing that will curtail usage.

    Even that isn't foolproof. I had a whole house of meth heads living right behind me at my old place and even though I knew what they were doing I couldn't stop them nor could the police.

    Some people will see what meth addicts lives are like and understand that it will **** them up and others will not.

    It being illegal hasn't stopped anything.
    With all due respect, you dodged the question.

    The issue is that at some subjective point the cost-benefit ratio of enforcement and prevention is acceptable. No doubt people have a different belief on what the cost-benefit graph looks like but for those such as myself and probably Jerry even a small decrease in usage is worth larger cost.
    Last edited by scourge99; 05-20-09 at 01:46 AM.
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  4. #204
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    With all due respect, you dodged the question.

    The issue is that at some subjective point the cost-benefit ratio of enforcement and prevention is acceptable. No doubt people have a different belief on what the cost-benefit graph looks like but for those such as myself and probably Jerry even a small decrease in usage is larger cost.
    I didn't dodge, I thought you were referring to police intervention.
    I don't agree with it because it doesn't address the problem.

    If you mean intervention with education, I agree with it working.
    If you mean intervention with mandatory rehab. Its possible it could work better than imprisonment.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #205
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I didn't dodge, I thought you were referring to police intervention.
    I don't agree with it because it doesn't address the problem.
    Its not that police enforcement doesn't work its that it currently can't solve the problem:
    1) a profitable black market
    2) addiction
    3) curiosity, experimenting, ignorance, stupidity

    Arresting people who sell drugs definitely has an effect. But depending on the situation the dealers can be replaced faster than they are replaced.
    Last edited by scourge99; 05-20-09 at 02:56 AM.
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  6. #206
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Its not that police enforcement doesn't work its that it currently can't solve the problem:
    1) a profitable black market
    2) addiction
    3) curiosity, experimenting, ignorance, stupidity

    Arresting people who sell drugs definitely has an effect. But depending on the situation the dealers can be replaced faster than they are replaced.
    Police are not supposed to solve these problems. They exist only to enforce the law.

    As long as money can be made from the distribution of these goods, I can guarantee you that no law will stop there sale.

    Can you name two places where you can almost absolutely find drugs for sale?

    I know of two, jails/prisons and schools, both of which are owned and operated by the very people who say drugs are not to be sold.

    They can't keep their own facilities drug free and in fact their facilities are the most common places where one is introduced to drugs.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No that's EXACTLY what you're saying.

    ________ isn't going away, so legalize it.

    "People do it anyway" is the ONLY reason you give. You NEVER say what makes a given thing unique, why it should be made legal and not others.
    Since I know you to be an intelligent debater, I will take this as a willful distortion of my argument because I have never espoused such nonsense.

    What I am saying is this: legalization will help combat addiction, so legalize it. Legalization will produce billions in tax revenue, so legalize it. The government does not retain the authority to criminalize drug use, so legalize it. The drug war is a massive waste of money and resources, so legalize it.

    My statement - that drug abuse isn't going away - was not a rationale for legalization, nor is it the only rationale I've offered, it was commentary on the ineffectiveness of drug laws.

    This is why the Loosertarian party fails every time. Society doesn't want everything that some token minority does outside the law sanctioned by the law simply because that token minority will do it anyway.
    1. I'm not a member of the Libertarian party.

    2. What?

    You're going to have to start coming up with actual reasoning if you want anyone to get behind your view.
    Personally, I could care less; I'll never use meth, legal or otherwise. And if I want to do illegal drugs I'll do them, and I'll never get caught because I'm not stupid. If this country wants to constantly pick the wrong option every time its presented with a choice then so be it - it won't hurt me.

  8. #208
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    I forgot to check psychedelic mushrooms. Doctors should be able to prescribe them to certain patients to cure psychological problems.

    Not joking

  9. #209
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I agree with Jerry. Weed smokers next door? Fine. Shroom children next door? Fine. Methheads on my block? Not even cool.
    Yeah, because that's precisely what will happen. Exactly which part of the statement "there is no known correlation between drug laws and the rate of drug use" do you not understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Etheral
    I don't understand what you are saying. Are you suggesting that if meth were legalized meth-heads would suddenly start popping up on your block?
    Pretty much, yeah.
    Exactly which part of the statement "there is no known correlation between drug laws and the rate of drug use" do you not understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Meth needs to be separated from other drugs in regards to legalization. And considering meth is devil spawn of the drug war anyway, let's drain the swamp of this one. A legal and cheaper alternate....namely cocaine will eliminate 99% of the demand anyway.
    That's an excellent point, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    I say we legalize meth at the same time we legalize bio-weapons....never
    Exactly which part of the statement "there is no known correlation between drug laws and the rate of drug use" do you not understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I'm all for keeping drugs that can kill illegal.
    Right, because throwing addicts in jail has been working out so well...

    Exactly which part of the statement "there is no known correlation between drug laws and the rate of drug use" do you not understand?

    When you make a drug illegal you make it more dangerous. It's that simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    With that said your argument assumes that the makers of crystal meth(currently Mexican cartels) have any incentive to let the government regulate their business. How is the government who can not even find the already running meth labs in trailers in Iowa and Utah supposed to regulate them when they become legal for sale?
    People don't buy moonshine out of someone's bathtub because they can buy it at the liquor store. Meth labs would naturally shut down because nobody would go there to buy meth. The police can't find all the meth labs because...wait for it...meth is illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What exactly is your point? That because addiction to hard drugs is not going away then it should be legalized? Well pedophilia is not going away either so by your logic we should legalize it.
    No, the point is that prohibition is not doing anything to keep anyone from using meth. "There is no known correlation between drug laws and the rate of drug use." Does that sound familiar yet? Treating the drug problem like a criminal problem instead of a medical problem has caused more problems than it has solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    it is my understanding that what amounts to toxic waste is a byproduct of meth production. So although the controls may not be unreasonable, they will be costly which will create a black market.
    When you leave in place certain remnants of prohibition, it stands to reason that the problems caused by said prohibition would still linger around. Imagine that!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Etheral
    So, upon legalization of meth, addicts will suddenly start popping up down the street from you and Hatuey because people abuse meth right now in other places?
    Yup.
    Exactly which part of the statement "there is no known correlation between drug laws and the rate of drug use" do you not understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It's a problem barely under control now. People don't just sit in their home and get high, they have to get the money, and in case you didn't know a meth addict has a notoriously difficult time holding down a job.

    So they turn to crime.
    And when your prohibitionist policies create a black market with hugely inflated prices, you're contributing to this very problem. Prohibition makes the drug problem worse, it causes more problems than it solves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No that's EXACTLY what you're saying.

    ________ isn't going away, so legalize it.

    "People do it anyway" is the ONLY reason you give. You NEVER say what makes a given thing unique, why it should be made legal and not others.

    We shouldn't have to tell you to do this.
    No, the point is that prohibition is not doing anything to keep anyone from using meth. "There is no known correlation between drug laws and the rate of drug use."

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Society doesn't want everything that some token minority does outside the law sanctioned by the law simply because that token minority will do it anyway.
    Good because legalization doesn't rely on that strawman argument at all. The point is that prohibition is not doing anything to keep anyone from using meth. "There is no known correlation between drug laws and the rate of drug use."

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You know what? **** this thread. I'm not supporting legal-meth no mater what argument you pull out of your ass. Why? BECAUSE IT'S **METH**

    Pot, sure, shrumes, fine, meth (etc), never.

    I'm not open to discussing legal recreational hard drugs, I've seen first hand how drugs have destroyed the lives of my family.
    I've seen drugs destroy members of my family too, and I've seen the drug laws destroy them even more. Once again, "drug X is bad therefore drug X should be illegal" makes no sense whatsoever. There is no known correlation between drug laws and the rate of drug use. Throwing people in jail doesn't solve anything, it only causes more problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Drugs that can lead to overdose = bad.
    Yes. Now please explain the rationale behind saying "drug X is bad therefore drug X should be illegal." Keep in mind that there is no known correlation between drug laws and the rate of drug use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The moment kids using legally bought meth start dying there will be a public outcry for it to be banned again
    What the hell are you talking about? Whoever said anything about making meth available for kids to buy? You're being totally ridiculous here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Meth users aren't looking for a way out. They are chasing. The moment you tell a person they can use a drug that is likely to kill them then you give them absolutely no incentive to stop using it.
    Nobody ever said that legalization would be an incentive to stop using drugs, so I don't know why you're assuming that. Education and deglamorization should be the incentive to stop. Not throwing people in jail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You know Jerry, I hate meth too but I understand that no amount of saying "its bad" is going to stop some people from doing it.
    No amount of "it's illegal" is going to stop them either. Prohibition doesn't solve any problems, it only causes more problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    So you believe that no amount or strategy of intervention would curtail such activity in the slightest?
    Education and deglamorization is working for tobacco, so it should also work for any other drug. Throwing people in jail doesn't solve anything, and it never has. It only causes more problems.

    Once again, since people keep ignoring this fact, there is no known correlation between drug laws and the rate of drug use. That means prohibition is not doing anything to curtail drug use. It means legalization won't automatically lead to more drug use. It means arguments like "drug X is bad therefore drug X should be illegal" are invalid non-sequitors. Practically every argument in favor of prohibition is refuted by this one simple fact. There is no known correlation between drug laws and the rate of drug use.

    Quote Originally Posted by American Medical Association
    A report commissioned by an influential American Medical Association committee was tabled after some medical experts reviewed a draft copy. The report recommended legalizing marijuana and decriminalization of other illegal drugs (Christopher S. Wren, "A.M.A. Shelves Disputed Report on Drugs," New York Times, June 23, 1996, p. A22; Christopher S. Wren, "Uproar in AMA: Paper touts legalizing drugs," San Francisco Chronicle, June 23, 1996, p. A1).


    The draft report was commissioned to look at ways for reducing the harm of drugs. It declared that "overall, abstinence-based treatment has a high failure rate," arguing that "under all circumstances, participation in drug treatment should be voluntary." It also recommended that "moderate steps toward drug decriminalization be taken" in order to reverse "the clearly negative consequences of the present prohibition status." John Morgan, M.D., a professor of pharmacology at the City University of New York Medical School and author of the report, said "it struck most of us that the biggest harm reduction we could see would be to stop putting people in jail."

    In addition, the draft report suggested that marijuana "should be decriminalized, and a mechanism created for retail sales to those 18 years of age or older" and that the "use, possession and low-level sales of all psychoactive drugs should be a subject of police action only when these activities are associated with a disruption of public order." It also recommended that "all 'buy-and-bust' police actions should cease."

    A.M.A. Tables Controversial Draft Report on Harm Reduction

  10. #210
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    There is no known correlation between drug laws and the rate of drug use[/B][/SIZE]" do you not understand?
    Laws may not slow the rate of homicides either, but I’m for keeping them around just the same.

    Meth production is dangerous – so dangerous that I am comfortable trumping liberty for security.

    And since meth only came about because of limited success by drug war agents in stamping out other drugs for periods of time, I think we will have a great deal of success limited its use.

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