View Poll Results: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

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  • Marijuana

    67 81.71%
  • Cocaine

    36 43.90%
  • LSD

    38 46.34%
  • Meth

    30 36.59%
  • Prescription drugs

    33 40.24%
  • Psychedelic mushrooms

    44 53.66%
  • Ecstasy

    35 42.68%
  • Opium

    38 46.34%
  • other

    28 34.15%
  • None of the above

    14 17.07%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

  1. #131
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Can you tell mewhat you base the bolded part on? I would be especially interested in the answer due to your knowledge of the subject as a SA councilor. It seems wrong, based on my experiences as a user.
    First I'd like to identify the two different types of users, recreational, 90% of population...and addicts, 10% of the population. I'm guessing recreational users will continue to use and remain in touch with the environmental cues that tell them to sober up and go home. Things like "spent too much money", "head hurts", "geeze I woke up with strangers and one was a guy" Addicts will not. Addicts will continue to loose family friends and lives on regulated drugs. It's all theoretical at this point because we have no instance of all these drugs being legalized.

    Now bear in mind...my expertise as an SA counselor only extends to addicts. Just how the users amongst the other 90% of the population will respond to legalization is a guess for me. I want to be clear. I'm intersted to hear your experience as a user, and how you think legalization would affect things.

    My main reason to legalize is that drugs are made dangerous because they are illegal and thus not subject to proper controls are other consequences of current drug policies. Not to mention organized crime and violent foreign cartels. I think drug usage is sometimes one of society's ills that won't be solved by criminalization, my example is the Volstead Act.

  2. #132
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Any drug that isn't physically addicting should be legalized.

    Physically addicting drugs should require a prescription. Addiction is a very serious disease and drug addiction should be treated as such. All one need do is look at what happened in China or any other country racked by addictive drug use to understand the effects.

    One of our government's job is to protect us. They protect us from violence, fraud, and even infectious diseases. Likewise, the government must take measures to protect its citizens from addiction. This doesn't mean a ban, it simply means it must be controlled and regulated. The history and consequences of addiction speaks for itself as a compelling reason for restricting some personal liberty. The laissez-faire approach to drugs is as nave and impractical to society as an anarchist's ideals are to government and law. Regulation and oversight is the key, not prohibition or carte blanche discretion.
    Our government's job is to protect our liberties. Not to protect us from making stupid decisions. Its this sort of logic that leads to bans on trans fats, the proposed soda tax, seat belt laws and all other sorts of intrusive regulations that are supposedly for our own good.

    As to the possibility of an epidemic of drug addicts, here's some info to chew on:

    Clinical Addiction Rates of Casual Users
    Tobbaco 32%
    Cocaine 23%
    Heroin 17%
    Alcohol 15%
    Marijuana 9%

    One of our legalized drugs is at the top of the list. Next on the list, cocaine, is closer to alcohol than it is the highly addictive tobbaco. Anyway, those are the addiction rates of casual users or experimenters. Since only a fraction of the population is going to ever be casual users, I'd say those rates won't lead to the end of civilization as we know it. Afterall tobbacco and alcohol haven't lead to our destruction.

    Info found here on page 21 of 61: http://www.rand.org/pubs/occasional_...RAND_OP121.pdf
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

  3. #133
    Student Goldwaters's Avatar
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    That's just not true. Of course is these drugs were legalized they would be much more popular and used much more. If you use hardcore drugs, law will eventually reprimand you. The assurance that there is no law against using such substances would increase use. That is just basic logic.
    I can see why it seems that way, but in my experiencce, people who abuse hard core drugs don't always respond to or practice logic for one. I'd like to offer you the notion that in the world of drug usage, only responsible recreational users use logic. A responsible person would not increase thier drug usage to dangerous levels simply because they can. An addict will destroy thier lives most of the time either way...we call that a doom curve.

  4. #134
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwaters View Post
    First I'd like to identify the two different types of users, recreational, 90% of population...and addicts, 10% of the population. I'm guessing recreational users will continue to use and remain in touch with the environmental cues that tell them to sober up and go home. Things like "spent too much money", "head hurts", "geeze I woke up with strangers and one was a guy" Addicts will not. Addicts will continue to loose family friends and lives on regulated drugs. It's all theoretical at this point because we have no instance of all these drugs being legalized.

    Now bear in mind...my expertise as an SA counselor only extends to addicts. Just how the users amongst the other 90% of the population will respond to legalization is a guess for me. I want to be clear. I'm intersted to hear your experience as a user, and how you think legalization would affect things.

    My main reason to legalize is that drugs are made dangerous because they are illegal and thus not subject to proper controls are other consequences of current drug policies. Not to mention organized crime and violent foreign cartels. I think drug usage is sometimes one of society's ills that won't be solved by criminalization, my example is the Volstead Act.
    Thank you for your answer. I am going to have to disagree with one of your premises. Addiction is not a binary thing, on or off. There are levels of addiction, and I believe that far more than 10 % of users have some level of addiction. As an example, lets look at marijuana use. It is normally referred to as either nonaddictive, or very minorly addictive. And yet, you see people engaging in self destructive behavior with some frequency among those who use it. Every place I have ever worked, there where people who would come to work fairly obviously high, who cover it just well enough to not get fired, and people who on lunch breaks go out and get high. This is obviously self destructive behavior.

    Any activity that is pleasant can lead to a level of addiction. I play MMO's, and addiction was a real problem among people I knew(myself included). The personal costs of these low level addictions can be staggering. By legalizing drugs, people are going to be more prone to try them, as the risk involved is no longer there, as well as a reduced social stigma. I believe this will increase the number of people with low level drug addiction, with potentially large negative effects.

    Note that most of the above is supposition based on experience(ie, educated guesswork), and is not necessarily a strong argument for prohibition. I do think it is things like this that should be considered in any move to end prohibition though. As I said in the other thread on roughly this topic, if drugs where made legal today, I would not be overly concerned...I have done my time on them, done enough damage, and am not going back, so the change would not drastically effect me.

  5. #135
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Thank you for your answer. I am going to have to disagree with one of your premises. Addiction is not a binary thing, on or off. There are levels of addiction, and I believe that far more than 10 % of users have some level of addiction. As an example, lets look at marijuana use. It is normally referred to as either nonaddictive, or very minorly addictive. And yet, you see people engaging in self destructive behavior with some frequency among those who use it. Every place I have ever worked, there where people who would come to work fairly obviously high, who cover it just well enough to not get fired, and people who on lunch breaks go out and get high. This is obviously self destructive behavior.
    The yardstick with which we guage the severity of someone's addiction is phrased in the following question...Has your life become unmanagable because of drug or alchohol use? By unmanagable we mean, financial problems, health problems, alienating your family, job difficulties, or legal troubles because of your drug usage.

    Would you allow yourself to fall into those troubles because of drugs Redress? The only thing that mattered to me as an SA Counselor is have they or haven't they.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Note that most of the above is supposition based on experience(ie, educated guesswork), and is not necessarily a strong argument for prohibition. I do think it is things like this that should be considered in any move to end prohibition though. As I said in the other thread on roughly this topic, if drugs where made legal today, I would not be overly concerned...I have done my time on them, done enough damage, and am not going back, so the change would not drastically effect me.
    Be thankful to have that descretion. It is what addicts lack. And thats kind of my point. Non addicts will not be changed drastically by legalization, and addicts continue to suffer from the disease of addiction. It has always been hard for non addicts to envision someone who has irresistable compulsions that lead to personal self destruction.

  6. #136
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwaters View Post
    The yardstick with which we guage the severity of someone's addiction is phrased in the following question...Has your life become unmanagable because of drug or alchohol use? By unmanagable we mean, financial problems, health problems, alienating your family, job difficulties, or legal troubles because of your drug usage.
    That is the "official" yardstick. I use a different one. To me you are an addict when you are willing to engage in self destructive behavior to do whatever it is. I smoke. It's self destructive. It does not make my life unmanageable, but I am still an addict. We should have done this part first by the way. It helps to define terms so we are talking about the same thing, or at lesat understanding what the other is talking about.

    Would you allow yourself to fall into those troubles because of drugs Redress? The only thing that mattered to me as an SA Counselor is have they or haven't they.
    I did. I ruined more than one good relationship, estranged myself from my family and friends, almost to the breaking point. Thankfully I was able to reconcile with some. I gave up a college education and early jobs. I risked my navy career(well, my navy hitch of 6 years), which would have carried lifelong penaties. I spent much money that I would have otherwise had. I put my life at risk at times. Only by pure luck or the grace of god I lucked into not spending time in a prison.


    Be thankful to have that descretion. It is what addicts lack. And thats kind of my point. Non addicts will not be changed drastically by legalization, and addicts continue to suffer from the disease of addiction. It has always been hard for non addicts to envision someone who has irresistable compulsions that lead to personal self destruction.
    I think of addiction kinda like cancer. If you where once an addict, you will always be an addict, just hopefully you can get it into remission. I am an addict to this day, and some days it takes a major effort of will to stay in remission. At some point, I thought on the words of Nancy Reagan, and her "just say no" campaign, and that mantra somehow gives me the strength to get through so far.

    My point in saying that addiction has levels is that self-destructive behavior does not entail sure destruction. Losing your job to drug or alcohol addiction is destruction, but risking your job is self destructive as well. Easier, safer access to drugs increases the likelihood that people will try, and end up becoming that low level addict, that has not yet destructed, but is acting in a self destructive manner.

  7. #137
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I think of addiction kinda like cancer. If you where once an addict, you will always be an addict, just hopefully you can get it into remission. I am an addict to this day, and some days it takes a major effort of will to stay in remission. At some point, I thought on the words of Nancy Reagan, and her "just say no" campaign, and that mantra somehow gives me the strength to get through so far.

    My point in saying that addiction has levels is that self-destructive behavior does not entail sure destruction. Losing your job to drug or alcohol addiction is destruction, but risking your job is self destructive as well. Easier, safer access to drugs increases the likelihood that people will try, and end up becoming that low level addict, that has not yet destructed, but is acting in a self destructive manner.
    You have a lot to be thankful for then. The word we use for remission is recovery. I must mention...if you were an addict...and you quit the self destructive behavior, and did it without rehab or AA/NA, you are 1/1000. The relapse rates for addicts even with rahab and recovery is 90%.

    But you have me thinking about something that has always bugged me. the ongoing theory is that the brain of an addict is deficient in it's ability to make decisions based on it's consideration of the consequences of it's pleasure seeking. And from that, I always wondered why the relapse rate of addicts in recovery wasn't 100%. So there has to be some element of personal choice in using and recovery. If I were to have voiced this thought anywhere near an AA/NA meeting or the rehab clinic I'd be gagged and run off. Thank God for the annonymity of the interwebs. So there, I agree that there may be degrees in the ability to resist irresistable compulsions. However...I still do not think legalization and regulation of drugs will push higher functioning addicts over the edge. That sort of thing happens when it happens for other reasons.
    Last edited by Goldwaters; 05-19-09 at 01:44 PM.

  8. #138
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Legalize it all, let people deal with the consequences of their actions.
    Tempting.....very tempting..
    But the druggies have a negative effect on society and their family, if they still have one...

  9. #139
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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwaters View Post
    You have a lot to be thankful for then. The word we use for remission is recovery. I must mention...if you were an addict...and you quit the self destructive behavior, and did it without rehab or AA/NA, you are 1/1000. The relapse rates for addicts even with rahab and recovery is 90%.
    You know, I was happier being ignorant of that statistic.

    But you have me thinking about something that has always bugged me. the ongoing theory is that the brain of an addict is deficient in it's ability to make decisions based on it's consideration of the consequences of it's pleasure seeking. And from that, I always wondered why the relapse rate of addicts in recovery wasn't 100%. So there has to be some element of personal choice in using and recovery. If I were to have voiced this thought anywhere near an AA/NA meeting or the rehab clinic I'd be gagged and run off. Thank God for the annonymity of the interwebs. So there, I agree that there may be degrees in the ability to resist irresistable compulsions. However...I still do not think legalization and regulation of drugs will push higher functioning addicts over the edge. That sort of thing happens when it happens for other reasons.
    I am sorry, but the idea that the brain of an addict is deficient is bull! We make a considered choice to take the pleasure with the risk. The pleasure is the important part. That theory had to come from either some one who has never been an addict, and feels bad for them, or from an addict looking to excuse his behavior. Jesus, that pisses me off. It's not bad enough I am an addict, now I am mentally deficient too...

    Now, when you are actually under the influence, you are mentally deficient, which is a whole other thing. Being high, or tripping, or drunk, makes you far too likely to make unconsidered decisions, or at least illogical. Just being an addict does not make you illogical, only directed in a certain way, which sounds like it contradicts the above paragraph, but really doesn't.

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    Re: Which drugs should be legalized for recreational use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Legalize it all, let people deal with the consequences of their actions.
    Just as a drugy would have to deal with their addiction, you will have to deal with the consequences of legalizing it. Crime is a major source of income and your children are the new customers, are you ready for that?

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