View Poll Results: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support or Belong to?

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  • North American Free Trade Agreement

    5 15.15%
  • North Atlantic Treaty Organization

    10 30.30%
  • The United Nations

    6 18.18%
  • The World Bank

    4 12.12%
  • The International Monetary Fund

    5 15.15%
  • World Health Organization

    10 30.30%
  • Kyoto Protocol

    5 15.15%
  • Commission for Environmental Cooperation

    7 21.21%
  • Middle East Free Trade Initiative

    4 12.12%
  • None of the Above

    19 57.58%
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Thread: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

  1. #1
    Advisor Burning Giraffe's Avatar
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    What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support? Is there really any reason for the United States to be involved with NATO or the United Nations? Is there any reason for us to continue pursuing failed and disadvantageous trade agreements like NAFTA? What about the WTO, IMF, World Bank, WHO, or any of these international bureaucracies the US has helped to establish? How about the CEC (Commission for Environmental Cooperation) or Kyoto?
    There is nothing more dangerous to the liberty of Man than a Government or a Religion seizing upon the strings of an overdeveloped herd instinct amongst the people.

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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Giraffe View Post
    What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support? Is there really any reason for the United States to be involved with NATO or the United Nations? Is there any reason for us to continue pursuing failed and disadvantageous trade agreements like NAFTA? What about the WTO, IMF, World Bank, WHO, or any of these international bureaucracies the US has helped to establish? How about the CEC (Commission for Environmental Cooperation) or Kyoto?
    Only trade agreements in my opinion, they are convoluted at the moment, but can always be refined, and all nations need trading partners.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    The US Needs to get out of NATO. We don't need Europe.

    Frankly, I think America's first order of business is to abandon its nonsensical alliance with its enemies in Europe by pulling out of NATO. The United States has enjoyed a long and significant relationship with the United Kingdom and we should form treaties and alliances with them, ignoring the European Union as whole. We have very little in common with them and no need to protect them. We can look to other allies in the world where we actually have strategic interests: Canada and Mexico, Singapore, Ireland, New Zealand, Denmark, Switzerland, South Korea, Japan, Israel, India, Australia, and Brazil. These are nations that we can work with.

    Secondly, we need to pull out of the United Nations. However, we could not afford to do so unilaterally. We would need some other important nations to come out of the UN with us to form an organization of some of the most powerful nations, ignoring the ones with small an ineffective military or political presences: The United Kingdom, China, Russia, France, India, Australia, Brazil, and Japan. An alliance of just a few nations with much regional power is all we really need. We don't need to keep supporting developing nations or Islamist nations, or nations immersed in chaos and civil war. We simply distract ourselves from a positive vision of the future and any real momentum forward.

    We need to renegotiate our trade agreements. These "free trade" agreements which give free trade to others while hampering our own should no longer exist. We need equal access. Forget "free trade" and "fair trade", the phrase that should be used is Equal Economic Access. Same standards. WE compromise on essential national industries, but no one nation need compromise more than the other. The United States has been bending and compromising so often over the last twenty five years that our economy is on the verge of breaking.
    There is nothing more dangerous to the liberty of Man than a Government or a Religion seizing upon the strings of an overdeveloped herd instinct amongst the people.

  4. #4
    Advisor Burning Giraffe's Avatar
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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Only trade agreements in my opinion, they are convoluted at the moment, but can always be refined, and all nations need trading partners.
    I agree. We need to revamp these trade agreements. Frankly, I think some environmental cooperation with our neighbors is pragmatic and ultimately very important as technologies change to accommodate environmental conditions. Certainly we should want clear and open channels to exchange information between the neighboring nations. For the same reasons I think we should definitely invest in the World Health Organization. A Virus in the Sudan could kill Americans all over the world if not handled properly.
    Last edited by Burning Giraffe; 05-16-09 at 03:08 AM.
    There is nothing more dangerous to the liberty of Man than a Government or a Religion seizing upon the strings of an overdeveloped herd instinct amongst the people.

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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    Just out of Curiosity, but do Europeans even want us to be a part of NATO? I mean, the chances are good that they do not and if we aren't wanted there, what's the point of being a member?
    There is nothing more dangerous to the liberty of Man than a Government or a Religion seizing upon the strings of an overdeveloped herd instinct amongst the people.

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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    Not listed on but should support:

    Non-Proliferation Treaty
    Chemical and Biological Weapons treaties
    SALT I & SALT II
    Free trade treaties

    Anyone want to guess who owns the last flow through account for the IMF?

    Hint: It's a country with 50 states.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    I don't think we should be in the United Nations or NAFTA.

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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    I said "none of the above" because the question seems to imply these organizations are healthy and properly constructed as they stand.

    The United States should be engaged in the world, and should seek a benevolent stance regarding the world. That much is merely what any would expect from any of his neighbors, and thus it what he should offer to any of this neighbors.

    However, the United States is a sovereign nation. Within our borders, US law is the highest law there is, to be superseded by none. We owe no fealty to any higher entity, no duty of obeisance to anyone but ourselves; this is the nature of all sovereign nations. We are free to do as we will; none may command us to do otherwise.

    Organizations such as the UN, and treaties such as Kyoto, seek to constrain and intrude upon that sovereignty. They seek to address not merely how nations should handle affairs beyond their borders, but within their borders--and no nation is obligated to surrender their sovereignty in that fashion.

    Others, such as NATO, serve a purpose whose time may very well have passed, and it is not improper to question whether such an organization should be disbanded in favor of a more timely and relevant construct (although I stop short of claiming to know what that construct might be).

    The US should be engaged in the world. It should be engaged as a sovereign nation, free and beholden to no one. It should preserve its sovereignty above all else--for any nation, defense of its sovereignty is the supreme civic virtue.

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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Giraffe View Post
    I agree. We need to revamp these trade agreements. Frankly, I think some environmental cooperation with our neighbors is pragmatic and ultimately very important as technologies change to accommodate environmental conditions. Certainly we should want clear and open channels to exchange information between the neighboring nations. For the same reasons I think we should definitely invest in the World Health Organization. A Virus in the Sudan could kill Americans all over the world if not handled properly.
    I don't trust the W.H.O. at all, I'm an insurance agent(the full career) and have seen the ways they misuse data and their agenda negates any benefit they have in my opinion. But you have a good point on pandemic prevention, maybe a new body would be required? As far as environmental protection goes, those treaties go way to far, such as Kyoto and anything else that has come up the pike so far, proven pollutant control I can live with, theoretical pollutants and the laws that would damage us to control them is not.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  10. #10
    Advisor Sanitas's Avatar
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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    You're forgetting the International Criminal Court. I support that too.
    "All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language...No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." - John Donne

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