View Poll Results: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support or Belong to?

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  • North American Free Trade Agreement

    5 15.15%
  • North Atlantic Treaty Organization

    10 30.30%
  • The United Nations

    6 18.18%
  • The World Bank

    4 12.12%
  • The International Monetary Fund

    5 15.15%
  • World Health Organization

    10 30.30%
  • Kyoto Protocol

    5 15.15%
  • Commission for Environmental Cooperation

    7 21.21%
  • Middle East Free Trade Initiative

    4 12.12%
  • None of the Above

    19 57.58%
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Thread: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

  1. #11
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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    I think we should remain in most all of the organizations we now belong. NATO and the UN are a bit useless, but we suffer no consequence by staying. We have the largest veto power and as in Iraq, we act with or without consent.

    Perhaps the most important, in my opinion at this point, is the Middle East Free Trade Initiative. I am an IR person and I think the key to solving the terrorist problem is by aiding in the establishment of a viable economy for the people of the ME. This will give the poor people of these countries an alternative to joining terror groups in order to support their families.

  2. #12
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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I think we should remain in most all of the organizations we now belong. NATO and the UN are a bit useless, but we suffer no consequence by staying. We have the largest veto power and as in Iraq, we act with or without consent.
    I want to see us end a lot of the one sided deals that we've undertaken in the past, they just aren't good for us IMO, the U.N. and NATO are useless, I would argue that we pay the "stupid tax" penalty by staying, that is, it doesn't benefit us in terms of international respect, they expect us to surrender a bit of our national sovreignity which is unacceptable, they try to missapply international law to our decisions, and all this after we waste money and resources in support of their inane agenda.
    Perhaps the most important, in my opinion at this point, is the Middle East Free Trade Initiative. I am an IR person and I think the key to solving the terrorist problem is by aiding in the establishment of a viable economy for the people of the ME. This will give the poor people of these countries an alternative to joining terror groups in order to support their families.
    I agree in full to this, many of the countries in which we currently trade are U.S. friendly, we have a strong trading partnership with at least five M.E. countries and good diplomacy, I see nothing but benefit in increasing that number.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  3. #13
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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I think we should remain in most all of the organizations we now belong. NATO and the UN are a bit useless, but we suffer no consequence by staying. We have the largest veto power and as in Iraq, we act with or without consent.

    Perhaps the most important, in my opinion at this point, is the Middle East Free Trade Initiative. I am an IR person and I think the key to solving the terrorist problem is by aiding in the establishment of a viable economy for the people of the ME. This will give the poor people of these countries an alternative to joining terror groups in order to support their families.
    Tim Im afraid this goes a little deeper than poverty. It is idological. For example the 911 hijackers where not poor. Many of them came from well to do families. Bin Laden himself came from a wealthy family. And what about work ethic. Is it possible to be productive when you are on your knees praying to Allah 5 times a day? I agree that MEFTI is a good idea I am just not sure it will reduce the pool from which our enimies recruit.
    When America is strong the world is calm, When America is weak tyrants and terrorist slaughter the meek. ~ SgtRock

  4. #14
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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I want to see us end a lot of the one sided deals that we've undertaken in the past, they just aren't good for us IMO, the U.N. and NATO are useless, I would argue that we pay the "stupid tax" penalty by staying, that is, it doesn't benefit us in terms of international respect, they expect us to surrender a bit of our national sovreignity which is unacceptable, they try to missapply international law to our decisions, and all this after we waste money and resources in support of their inane agenda.
    I agree in full to this, many of the countries in which we currently trade are U.S. friendly, we have a strong trading partnership with at least five M.E. countries and good diplomacy, I see nothing but benefit in increasing that number.
    I disagree, as much as I dislike the UN I believe it is necessary for us to maintain membership. Without the vetopower of the USA we will see a shift in the UN that would not be in our best intrest.
    When America is strong the world is calm, When America is weak tyrants and terrorist slaughter the meek. ~ SgtRock

  5. #15
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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I think we should remain in most all of the organizations we now belong. NATO and the UN are a bit useless, but we suffer no consequence by staying. We have the largest veto power and as in Iraq, we act with or without consent.

    Perhaps the most important, in my opinion at this point, is the Middle East Free Trade Initiative. I am an IR person and I think the key to solving the terrorist problem is by aiding in the establishment of a viable economy for the people of the ME. This will give the poor people of these countries an alternative to joining terror groups in order to support their families.
    We suffer costs. We suffer the expense. Europe has to deal with American Troops residing in their home lands. Neither NAFTA nor the MEFTI have anything to do with free trade. It's an unbalanced trade giving the Near East everything it wants from us without any reimbursement in return.

    The Environment and the prevention of disease are important. We need to work together on these issues. But political issues and military issues? Things are different. The United States needs new foreign policy, we need to better our relationships with some nations, end our relationships with others, and make new friends in the world. We've got to stop thinking like its still the Cold War. We've got to get over this ridiculous idea that Europe is an ally. The UK and Ireland certainly are friendly, but Europe is no more friendly to us than China, Saudi Arabia, or Egypt. In fact, we probably get more out of these less ethical states than we do out of the Europeans.
    There is nothing more dangerous to the liberty of Man than a Government or a Religion seizing upon the strings of an overdeveloped herd instinct amongst the people.

  6. #16
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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    I disagree, as much as I dislike the UN I believe it is necessary for us to maintain membership. Without the vetopower of the USA we will see a shift in the UN that would not be in our best intrest.
    Yeah, but who cares? It wouldn't apply to us.
    There is nothing more dangerous to the liberty of Man than a Government or a Religion seizing upon the strings of an overdeveloped herd instinct amongst the people.

  7. #17
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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Giraffe View Post
    Yeah, but who cares? It wouldn't apply to us.
    That would be true.

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    I disagree, as much as I dislike the UN I believe it is necessary for us to maintain membership. Without the vetopower of the USA we will see a shift in the UN that would not be in our best intrest.
    I see your point as well, but we are already putting up with too much crap from that organization and if it can't restructure, then I still maintain it needs to go.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  8. #18
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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Giraffe View Post
    We suffer costs. We suffer the expense. Europe has to deal with American Troops residing in their home lands. Neither NAFTA nor the MEFTI have anything to do with free trade. It's an unbalanced trade giving the Near East everything it wants from us without any reimbursement in return.

    The Environment and the prevention of disease are important. We need to work together on these issues. But political issues and military issues? Things are different. The United States needs new foreign policy, we need to better our relationships with some nations, end our relationships with others, and make new friends in the world. We've got to stop thinking like its still the Cold War. We've got to get over this ridiculous idea that Europe is an ally. The UK and Ireland certainly are friendly, but Europe is no more friendly to us than China, Saudi Arabia, or Egypt. In fact, we probably get more out of these less ethical states than we do out of the Europeans.
    I agree that somethings must be changed, but I do not think it is true that we get nothing in return. For example, it is military policy to have bases throughout the world in order to have attack capabilities if so needed. The "Bush" pre-emptive doctrine. Right or wrong, there is some appeal to being prepared for all scenarios and keeping the fight away from the continent. As far as MEFTI, it is keeping oil companies in oil, I could argue either way for this, but in reality the ME is all about oil and we all know it. I think it as well as NAFTA need reform in order to create real free trade, as is NAFTA is responsible for the immigration increase from Mexico, but you will never hear that admitted.

  9. #19
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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    Tim Im afraid this goes a little deeper than poverty. It is idological. For example the 911 hijackers where not poor. Many of them came from well to do families. Bin Laden himself came from a wealthy family. And what about work ethic. Is it possible to be productive when you are on your knees praying to Allah 5 times a day? I agree that MEFTI is a good idea I am just not sure it will reduce the pool from which our enimies recruit.
    You make valid points, but I think there was other motives other than zealotry in these attacks. Many ME scholars point to the psychological side of terrorism, that is many prominent and wealthy Arabs, such as Bin Laden, feel that their countries have been left behind the rest of the world. That is to say that at one point in history the arab nations were the epicenter of scientific thought. As time has past and the industrial revolution created new powerhouses, ie.. the U.S. and Europe, the ME was marginalized and essentially used however the powers saw fit. Britain did as it pleased in the Middle East, and the U.S. is hardly blameless as our activity has led to the Iran crisis and the rise of the Taliban in Afghanistan after the Soviet War. Thus, these people see their primitive societies, excluding those wealthy oil states, they moved to fundamentalism to explain their dilemma and the "Great White Satan," was born.

    So by building better economies in the ME and providing alternatives to terror groups, I think we may reduce the pool of candidates and make great headway.
    Last edited by tlmorg02; 05-16-09 at 06:24 PM.

  10. #20
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    Re: What Treaties & Organizations Should the US Support?

    I voted for all of them except the Kyoto Protocol.

    North American Free Trade Agreement
    Yes, the more free trade, the better...especially with our neighbors. And before anyone starts shrieking about "managed trade," remember that the perfect is the enemy of the good. NAFTA is a *huge* improvement over the trade barriers that existed before. Eventually I'd like to get to the point where we have no trade barriers at all.

    North Atlantic Treaty Organization
    Yes, although it seems to be outliving its usefulness. For now, I don't see any reason to leave it though. It would just damage our relationship with our allies. Eventually I would like to see this evolve into what John McCain calls a Concert of Democracies, which would be open to all democratic nations in the world. Not necessarily a military alliance anymore, but more of a political organization to sideline the UN Security Council.

    The United Nations
    Yes, the UN is the only forum where all of the world's nations can voice their concerns about any international issue. Just because it doesn't always do what Americans want doesn't mean that it's worthless. Its resolutions are not binding anyway, and its treaties are not binding unless the US Congress ratifies them.

    The World Bank
    Absolutely. IMO the World Bank is a key to alleviating poverty in developing states. It avoids some of the problems of direct foreign aid (e.g. corruption, logistics, targeting aid to the wrong projects, dumping food) by providing LOANS to nations for specific projects that it deems economically feasible and that will help the country develop. It helps them take responsibility for their affairs while at the same time assisting them with money.

    The International Monetary Fund
    Yes. As we saw in the late 1990s, when currencies collapse due to intense speculation, they can take down the economies of other nations as well. The IMF is an important way to help stabilize the global economy.

    World Health Organization
    Obviously, yes. The WHO is the best thing the UN has ever done...I really don't see any reason why anyone would ever be against the WHO, other than ideological extremism.

    Kyoto Protocol
    Nah. For one thing, the Kyoto Protocol ends at 2013 anyway. At this point, there really wouldn't be much point to joining. Second of all, the requirements imposed on the United States would be too draconian and not achievable. Third of all, even if we met our goals it would be more than outweighed by the INCREASES in emissions elsewhere. Fourth of all, it is becoming clear that most of the nations who HAVE ratified the Kyoto Protocol are not going to meet their goals, which makes the treaty pointless.

    Commission for Environmental Cooperation
    Yes. The environmental policies of Canada, the United States, and Mexico affect one another, since we share borders. It makes sense to coordinate our efforts.

    Middle East Free Trade Initiative
    Yes, for the same reasons as NAFTA.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 05-16-09 at 10:25 PM.
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