View Poll Results: So, should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

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  • Yes, parents should be allowed

    31 21.83%
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    97 68.31%
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Thread: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

  1. #21
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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    OK, well what if they believed that their child was the Antichrist, and instead of feeding him hot dogs they were going to feed him arsenic, to purge the devil from his body. Just an alternate path of care.
    You need to google before you post.

    Arsenic Compound Improves Survival of Adults with Uncommon Form of Leukemia - Drugs.com MedNews

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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Irrelevant. You understand the point of the analogy and are just splitting hairs instead of addressing the point.

    OK, well what if they believed that their child was the Antichrist, and instead of feeding him hot dogs they were going to feed him arsenic, to purge the devil from his body. Just an alternate path of care.
    Cyanide. Botulism. Mercury. Take your pick.
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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    While there are a multitude of incidents over the past couple years, here is a recent one about parents are refusing to allow chemotherapy on their kid and the kid appears to be ignorant of the situation.

    Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy

    The kid is pretty much a goner without the treatment.

    So, should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    [EDIT] Based on Etheral's insightful marks, assume at least for the discussion that the medical live saving treatment is medically sound and likely to save the child's life [/EDIT]
    Assuming we're talking about children and not fetuses, the answer is no. They should not be allowed to refuse life saving treatment.

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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Irrelevant. You understand the point of the analogy and are just splitting hairs instead of addressing the point.
    Actually, I'm pointing out the flaw in your analogy. You are presuming the arsenic to be a poison, and is being used as a poison. Arsenic is used in approved medical treatments. Your presumption of ill use, and thus your analogy, fail completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Cyanide. Botulism. Mercury. Take your pick.
    Same flaw. Same failure.

    cyanide - Etymology, Appearance and odor, Occurrence and uses, Toxicity, Poison use, In Current Events
    Medical uses of mercury
    Safety and efficacy of NeuroBloc (botulinum toxin ...[Neurology. 1999] - PubMed Result

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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Actually, I'm pointing out the flaw in your analogy. You are presuming the arsenic to be a poison, and is being used as a poison. Arsenic is used in approved medical treatments. Your presumption of ill use, and thus your analogy, fail completely.



    Same flaw. Same failure.

    cyanide - Etymology, Appearance and odor, Occurrence and uses, Toxicity, Poison use, In Current Events
    Medical uses of mercury
    Safety and efficacy of NeuroBloc (botulinum toxin ...[Neurology. 1999] - PubMed Result
    Do any of those websites mention purging Satan from one's body as a legitimate medical use of those substances? If not, please address the analogy I presented instead of these silly irrelevant claims about medical efficacy.

    Just to clarify: If parents want to feed their kids arsenic/cyanide/botulism/mercury to purge the devil from their body, you don't believe the state has any cause to interfere. Is that correct?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 05-15-09 at 09:28 PM.
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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Just to clarify: If parents want to feed their kids arsenic/cyanide/botulism/mercury to purge the devil from their body, you don't believe the state has any cause to interfere. Is that correct?
    That is not correct.

  7. #27
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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I really really really want to say that no, parents should not be allowed to refuse life saving medical treatment for their children. I just cannot do it. I say that for a number of reasons, but for the most practical reason is that it would be nearly impossible to tailor a law that would be workable without infringing on personal freedom.
    whose personal freedom? the parents or the child? If it is a religious reason, the child should not be required or even expected to follow the tenants related to this decision until an adult.....
    again, the parents do not own the child..
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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    That is not correct.
    Everything you have said up until now would lead me to believe it is, so please explain what the difference is between my analogy and the case in this thread. Both scenarios are motivated by religious beliefs. Both scenarios involve an "alternate treatment." Neither scenario involves the parents wishing death upon their child. Both scenarios will result in death for the child.

    Instead of pointing out the medical efficacy of certain substances (which do not include purging Satan), please explain at what point it ceases to be child abuse/neglect/murder, and becomes "freedom of religion."
    Last edited by Kandahar; 05-15-09 at 09:52 PM.
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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    whose personal freedom? the parents or the child? If it is a religious reason, the child should not be required or even expected to follow the tenants related to this decision until an adult.....
    again, the parents do not own the child..
    Some one has to make decisions about the welfare of a child. The state making rules in terms of certain things is ok. Beating your kid is bad. Getting involved in medical decisions, well, now it gets too complicated. Either you have to have rules in place for every possible situation(impractical at best), or you have to appoint people to make the decisions on a case by case basis. Thankfully, we have people who are there to make those decisions on a case by case basis. We call them parents.

    I understand the desire to do everything possible to look out for the welfare of children. It is commendable to want to do that. But, at some point, we have to accept that the government cannot, and should not do everything. Sometimes the government has to let people work out there own damnation.

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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    whose personal freedom? the parents or the child? If it is a religious reason, the child should not be required or even expected to follow the tenants related to this decision until an adult.....
    again, the parents do not own the child..
    In Texas, at least, the law does not agree with you.

    153.074 of the Family Code grants a parent the right to, among other things:
    (4) the right to direct the moral and religious training of the child.

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