View Poll Results: So, should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

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  • Yes, parents should be allowed

    31 21.83%
  • No, parents should not be allowed

    97 68.31%
  • I don't know

    14 9.86%
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Thread: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

  1. #161
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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's their right.
    Child abuse is not a right. Convincing your child that the drs. are wrong and brainwashing them into feeling that they don't need lifesaving treatment is abuse.

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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You're assuming motives for a person not in the situation and thus isn't making the decision

    Good debate tactic there, wow I'm convinced

    I'm not choosing death for any of my children, I'm so far giving support to parent's who want to choose a less painful death for their child.

    If it were me, than since I'm not a member of this Native American group, I might make a different decision. I might choose to put my child through the pain out of the Christian ideal that you always choose life.

    My argument on this thread is that the state has not demonstrated a compelling interest to be involved at all. You seem to keep ignoring that point.
    I disagree. I think the state has a compelling interest because both mother and child are deluded. They do not believe the cancer is growing, despite medical evidence that it has. They do not believe the kid's chances of dying if untreated are high- which they are. And they believe magic water is gonna heal him - which it ain't.

    They have made the decisions they are making in a deluded state of mind. When you have no grip on reality it compels the courts to make mentally sound decisions for you.

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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I understand what you are saying, it just frames the issue differently than I do. To me, there are a few places the government just does not belong. As an example, the government does not belong in my bedroom, as what I do with another consenting adult or myself is no ones business but mine. Likewise, I don't think the government has a place in the doctors office as I am making medical decisions for me or my family. This does mean that bad things are going to happen on occasion as a result, but nothing is ever actually free.
    There are a few places kids don't belong. Kids don't belong in cemeteries, and if that means bad things (like the arrest of certain parents) happens on occasion, I couldn't care less. What gives these parents the right to kill their kid? Could the kid's uncle do it? What about an adopted parent or a grandparent? Why don't children have a right to life that supersedes the right of their parents to freedom of religion or whatever crap lets them do this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat
    Heh. Do you realize how many children I'd murder to be immortal and have an army of willing slaves?

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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's their right.
    Absolutely wrong. A parent only has limited control over what they can legally do with a child, a child is not their property, a child has rights and they have responsibilities toward the child. A parent cannot choose to starve the child, a parent cannot choose to physically, sexually or emotionally abuse a child, etc. Religious rights do not excuse what is otherwise abuse.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    There are assumptions being made here about what treatment is best. My problem with the whole thing is that the state has the final word on what treatments it thinks are "legitimate." This latest case, and I don't know all the details, involves a native american tribe whose current chief apparently cured himself using traditional herbals and other methods. Did the judge get a medical degree and do lab studies of the effectiveness of the two treatments in question? Think not.
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  6. #166
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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowRevs View Post
    There are assumptions being made here about what treatment is best. My problem with the whole thing is that the state has the final word on what treatments it thinks are "legitimate." This latest case, and I don't know all the details, involves a native american tribe whose current chief apparently cured himself using traditional herbals and other methods. Did the judge get a medical degree and do lab studies of the effectiveness of the two treatments in question? Think not.
    I understand were you are coming from but I have to say that most of that herbal healing crap is just that crap.

    As long as there is no documented evidence that suggests that it is actually able to cure anything then not seeking real medical treatment for a child should be considered abuse.
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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowRevs View Post
    There are assumptions being made here about what treatment is best. My problem with the whole thing is that the state has the final word on what treatments it thinks are "legitimate." This latest case, and I don't know all the details, involves a native american tribe whose current chief apparently cured himself using traditional herbals and other methods. Did the judge get a medical degree and do lab studies of the effectiveness of the two treatments in question? Think not.
    No, but the state called in doctors as key witnesses who DO have medical degrees and HAVE done lab studies (or at least are able to understand the lab studies that others have done) of the effectiveness of treatments.
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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowRevs View Post
    There are assumptions being made here about what treatment is best.
    No. There are statisical and scientific studies done to show the chemotherapy has a high remission rate, and no studies to show the magic and weed treatment preferred by the parents are any more efficacious than doing absolutely nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by LowRevs View Post
    My problem with the whole thing is that the state has the final word on what treatments it thinks are "legitimate."
    All the faith healers need to do is establish a scientific and statistical background for the "treatments" they propose, and the state will grant them due consideration.

    Quote Originally Posted by LowRevs View Post
    This latest case, and I don't know all the details, involves a native american tribe whose current chief apparently cured himself using traditional herbals and other methods.
    This is called anecdotal evidence and completely irrelevant when not supported by statistical studies.

    Quote Originally Posted by LowRevs View Post
    Did the judge get a medical degree and do lab studies of the effectiveness of the two treatments in question? Think not.
    No. The judge has a law degree. And the question is a legal question, ie, "should the state intervene to save a minor child from parental incompetence", and the judge ruled "yes".

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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    Mom and son have returned: Father appeals to his wife to return with their cancer-stricken son - CNN.com

    They are scheduled to have a news conference this evening. CNN will have a segment on them in just a few.
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    Re: Should parents be allowed to refuse life saving treatment for their children?

    If you believe both George Bush and Barrack Obama made only perfect decisions can you believe the government should have the final life and death health decisions of your child.

    I also believe if the government takes that degree of control of a child over the parent, the government has to take care of that child economically and in terms of health for the rest of the child's life however long it is even if to 100 years old. Who controls, pays.

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