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Euthanasia: Do you support it or against it?

Euthanasis

  • Total voters
    45
Jerry said:
That's what my sister though my father would do, also, but in the moment he couldn't give the order to kill his daughter.

I would like to highlight the fact that when in so much pain, you are not legal capable of consent. If you have firm instructions to be killed, or to be kept alive, you MUST understand that even with a living will, your wishes may not be carried out.
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I have thought a little more on this post of yours. I find your posts to be challenging and thought provoking.

I look at your sisters case and I am happyy for you that it worked out the way that it did.

When i am considering the case for euthanasia I am looking at people who are terminally ill. They may also be totally impaired and incapable of doing for themselves or thinking for themselves. this may be accompanied with pain or not.

The chances of recovering a normal life are nil. I am not sure that is the case with your sister. I am not sure she had a chance of fully recovering. If she did and for a time there would be pain that is different.

I do understand that the person may not be able to pull the plug on me in that event. I know that she will. She is my life partner and my proxy and my attorney all rolled into one. She also knows that I will not hesitate one second to do what she has asked of me.

I would rather walk into the end with my head up and my dignity in order then to suffer another month so my loved ones can watch me in torment while dying.
 
Inferno said:
I have thought a little more on this post of yours. I find your posts to be challenging and thought provoking.

I look at your sisters case and I am happyy for you that it worked out the way that it did.

When i am considering the case for euthanasia I am looking at people who are terminally ill. They may also be totally impaired and incapable of doing for themselves or thinking for themselves. this may be accompanied with pain or not.

The chances of recovering a normal life are nil. I am not sure that is the case with your sister. I am not sure she had a chance of fully recovering. If she did and for a time there would be pain that is different.

I do understand that the person may not be able to pull the plug on me in that event. I know that she will. She is my life partner and my proxy and my attorney all rolled into one. She also knows that I will not hesitate one second to do what she has asked of me.

I would rather walk into the end with my head up and my dignity in order then to suffer another month so my loved ones can watch me in torment while dying.
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I empithise for those who are in painfull, terminal conitions; I just don't trust The People to leave such a law alone for all time. The People have demonstrated that such laws will be expanded far beyond their original purpose and abused in great number.

Ideologicly I support euthinasia in extreme cases, but practicly I don't support any such law because I know what it will become.
 
Jerry said:
I empithise for those who are in painful, terminal conditions; I just don't trust The People to leave such a law alone for all time. The People have demonstrated that such laws will be expanded far beyond their original purpose and abused in great number.

Ideologically I support euthanasia in extreme cases, but practically I don't support any such law because I know what it will become.
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There needs be some law or standard to protect from both sides. Here is another issue. What is to prevent that one you love and trust with your life from saying pull the plug before you would have them because it involves a reasonable estate? That is the flip flop to this. They pull the plug to soon.
 
Jerry said:
Hence my Roe-v-Wade refrence earlier.

This will not stop at terminal illness. This will progress to at-will suicide just as Roe progressed from medical nisecity to at-will abortion.

At-will suicide is the logical consiquence of 'the right to die'.

Please don't limit the scope of what this issue conserns to only what you personaly feel comfortable considering. If you do not support at-will suicide, you can not support any such right-to-law in good conscience.
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They are not at all the same thing though. Mid-second semester abortion is not the same as terminating the life of a terminally ill patient. I don't think law makers would be as willy nilly about it as you think they were with abortion.

It would be a simple matter to place restrictions on acceptable euthanasia, such as doctor's verification of terminal illness, mental capacity to sign the documents (which would require psychiatric followup), and a testimony to all alternatives having been considered.

Passive euthanasia is already performed in most hospitals. Cancer patients in their last weeks of life are usually killed via liver failure due to an overdose of morphine and other pain killers. The euphamism is that we are just "making them comfortable", but really we are quickening the pace at which they die.

Euthanasia would just be one step further: ensuring that you never even make it to the point where you have to be overdosed. You can just end it before severe pain and loss of dignity.

As for suicide... if people really want to do it, and I don't just mean attempt it in some meager way as a cry for help, but you genuinely have no desire to live, then they will succeed, law or no law. Suicide is a different realm than euthanasia, it's why they are two different terms.
 
Inferno said:
There needs be some law or standard to protect from both sides. Here is another issue. What is to prevent that one you love and trust with your life from saying pull the plug before you would have them because it involves a reasonable estate? That is the flip flop to this. They pull the plug to soon.
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I can't quote them dyrectly for you, but I know that such laws already exist for unbearable pain and brain death.
 
Orius said:
They are not at all the same thing though. Mid-second semester abortion is not the same as terminating the life of a terminally ill patient. I don't think law makers would be as willy nilly about it as you think they were with abortion.
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I was using Roe as an example of a law which had a narrow scope of aplication at first, yet over the years has been broadened to include every imaginable excuse.

Abortion was just the thing that came to mind, if I had another example off the cuff I would have used it. I didn't mean to imply that I was compairing abortion with euthinasia. I only wanted to make a point on the pattern that laws are distorted from their original intent.

Orius said:
It would be a simple matter to place restrictions on acceptable euthanasia, such as doctor's verification of terminal illness, mental capacity to sign the documents (which would require psychiatric followup), and a testimony to all alternatives having been considered.
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Well, yeah, but here again that's how Roe started out also, and today those restrictions are gon.

Orius said:
As for suicide... if people really want to do it, and I don't just mean attempt it in some meager way as a cry for help, but you genuinely have no desire to live, then they will succeed, law or no law. Suicide is a different realm than euthanasia, it's why they are two different terms.
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If someone is going to do away with themselves then I have no reason to believe that they would wate through the hoops folks like myself would have them jump through for final opruval to die.

They would just do it.

So I guess there's nothing realy to discuss. Leave the laws the way they are, since euthinasia is permitted already, and those who can't wate will off themselves. Obama will be spared the trouble of listing assisted suicide as a covered medical treatement in his national health care program and it will be one more tax dollar I get to keep.
 
Jerry said:
Hence my Roe-v-Wade reference earlier.

This will not stop at terminal illness. This will progress to at-will suicide just as Roe progressed from medical nicety to at-will abortion.

At-will suicide is the logical consequence of 'the right to die'.

Please don't limit the scope of what this issue concerns to only what you personally feel comfortable considering. If you do not support at-will suicide, you can not support any such right-to-law in good conscience.
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Roe V Wade was a case of medical privacy. It was hardly about abortion at all. Doe v Bolton was the stronger case for abortion.

Roe stressed that the woman has the right to privacy. The medical records HIPAA Privacy act was spun off of Roe V Wade. That is what protects all your medical records today.
 
Inferno said:
Roe V Wade was a case of medical privacy. It was hardly about abortion at all. Doe v Bolton was the stronger case for abortion.

Roe stressed that the woman has the right to privacy. The medical records HIPAA Privacy act was spun off of Roe V Wade. That is what protects all your medical records today.
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The right to die would also fall under one's right to privacey, and imo suicide would therefore follow the same path.
 
Jerry said:
The right to die would also fall under one's right to privacey, and imo suicide would therefore follow the same path.
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True it more than likely would be that way. There would have to be a set of laws for this entire situation.
 
Inferno said:
The idea of Euthanasia.

If you found yourself terminally ill and there was discomfort and the expenses were rising. The care and visitation is getting tough on the family.

Do you think that Euthanasia should be legal? Do you think that it should be there if you need it?
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I have just four words:

MY BODY, MY CHOICE.
 
Inferno said:
No i don't wonder why really. I think we just drift off into the night and are gone. People hold us here by memory and someday that too will fade into sweet oblivion. I am not an afterlife kind of person. I get the idea that when we are dead we are dead.
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My Great-Great-Great-Great Grandfather Norris, wants me to tell you that you will very likely change your opinion in this matter later.


(Sorry, GGGG Grandpa can be annoying, but he means well. He never learned to type, and even if he had, he'd spell things oddly and his fingers would go through the keys anyhow.)
 
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Oftencold said:
My Great-Great-Great-Great Grandfather Norris, wants me to tell you that you will very likely change your opinion in this matter later.


(Sorry, GGGG Grandpa can be annoying, but he means well. He never learned to type, and even if he had, he'd spell things oddly and his fingers would go through the keys anyhow.)
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Not likely. I have a better chance of flapping my arms and flying to the moon.
 
Inferno said:
The idea of Euthanasia.

If you found yourself terminally ill and there was discomfort and the expenses were rising. The care and visitation is getting tough on the family.

Do you think that Euthanasia should be legal? Do you think that it should be there if you need it?
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Absolutely. However, I think it must be a medical decision, not an emotional decision. I do not think Doctors should be forced to take the life of healthy people. I think euthanasia should be a medical practice predicated on medical criteria. I think it should be used only for individuals in tremendous amounts of pain or for individuals with terminal diseases.
 
Burning Giraffe said:
Absolutely. However, I think it must be a medical decision, not an emotional decision. I do not think Doctors should be forced to take the life of healthy people. I think euthanasia should be a medical practice predicated on medical criteria. I think it should be used only for individuals in tremendous amounts of pain or for individuals with terminal diseases.
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This is certainly true. i would not want doctors offing people if they have a bit of depression over the lost of a pet or a mate. That would be horrible. Yes terminal and the pain would have to be something that is not going away.
 
Because of time zones I have to post when I can so if this has been covered im sorry.Re Pain.

My Dad died a couple of years back at 93yrs of age.

His mind at the time was very sharp, his body was just past its "sell by date".

He had no more pain than usual, he just was tired of fighting old age, he was frightened and upset about the burden he was becoming on my Mum and me and my brothers

He told me on my last visit whilst he was at home (he had wet himself the night before) that he had had enough and he did not want to leave us with memories of his further decline.

The next day when my Mum was in the garden he had a fall down the stairs, he had not manage to get out of bed without assistance for a week before this.

He was taken to hospital, when I got there he opened his eyes as the Doctor was asking me some booking in questions and stated "steve tell them I just want to die" he then made a few jokes and went back to sleep.

I went home return with his living will requesting no medical intervention.

He died next day.

My Mum who is 93yrs has a stash of pills.
 
B L Zeebub said:
Because of time zones I have to post when I can so if this has been covered im sorry.Re Pain.

My Dad died a couple of years back at 93yrs of age.

His mind at the time was very sharp, his body was just past its "sell by date".

He had no more pain than usual, he just was tired of fighting old age, he was frightened and upset about the burden he was becoming on my Mum and me and my brothers

He told me on my last visit whilst he was at home (he had wet himself the night before) that he had had enough and he did not want to leave us with memories of his further decline.

The next day when my Mum was in the garden he had a fall down the stairs, he had not manage to get out of bed without assistance for a week before this.

He was taken to hospital, when I got there he opened his eyes as the Doctor was asking me some booking in questions and stated "steve tell them I just want to die" he then made a few jokes and went back to sleep.

I went home return with his living will requesting no medical intervention.

He died next day.

My Mum who is 93yrs has a stash of pills.
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That's horrible that he had to throw himself down the stairs. There should be a system in place so that people have more dignified options. I'm sorry for your loss.
 
Oftencold said:
My Great-Great-Great-Great Grandfather Norris, wants me to tell you that you will very likely change your opinion in this matter later.


(Sorry, GGGG Grandpa can be annoying, but he means well. He never learned to type, and even if he had, he'd spell things oddly and his fingers would go through the keys anyhow.)
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This isn't WoW chat, not to many people here will get noris jokes.
 
I already have a living will that says orders doctors to pull the plug if I'm ever rendered irreparably brain dead or will not recover from my injury/illness and leave the hospital. So does my wife. I've also made it clear that when I kick the bucket, I don't want any funeral, nothing that costs anyone anything, give my body to science, throw it in a ditch, whatever, I'm dead, what do I care?
 
Tucker Case said:
But what's awesome is that he went out telling jokes.

That's how I want to go.
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independent_thinker2002 said:
And that's the thing. It should be a personal choice.
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I think it is the choice that we should all be entitled to make. I have made my wishes known as my partner has. We will follow those wishes as best we can. It is to honor and care for those that you love and care for even in their death.
 
Cephus said:
I already have a living will that says orders doctors to pull the plug if I'm ever rendered irreparably brain dead or will not recover from my injury/illness and leave the hospital. So does my wife. I've also made it clear that when I kick the bucket, I don't want any funeral, nothing that costs anyone anything, give my body to science, throw it in a ditch, whatever, I'm dead, what do I care?
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I have done all of that as well. My partner medical proxy and my attorney are all the same person so it made it very easy.
 
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