View Poll Results: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

Voters
25. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, even though I lived, the law is the law and they broke it.

    10 40.00%
  • No, they did what needed to be done.

    9 36.00%
  • I have no clue how I'd react in that situation.

    6 24.00%
Page 8 of 12 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 115

Thread: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

  1. #71
    Liberal Fascist For Life!

    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:26 PM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    86,484
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    When death is staring us in the face there are very few thing in life which will fortify our spirit and strengthen our resolve. Sparing a terrorist the discomfort of water-boarding is not one of those things. Anyone who says otherwise has never faced their mortality.
    When you are staring death in the face, I can promise you that you are most likely not thinking about people who are locked up in any way.

    This is looking at things in the wrong way. I have zero sympathy for anything that happens to a terrorist. I do find it important what we choose to do. In other words, the terrorists are not even part of the equation. If torture is immoral, we harm ourselves when we do it, no matter who is being tortured.

    Your comments still do not excuse you insulting a posters moral stance. That was low, and you should apologize.

  2. #72
    Running to Happiness
    Renae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Antonio Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:53 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    33,222
    Blog Entries
    10

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Again, your life is not more important than OUR RIGHTS. Don't speak to me about the founding as you piss on it.
    I Piss on nothing sir, I reject your false claims that a terrorists rights supersede my right to live, or the lives of other American's to live free from terrorist attacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    If you think the founders put life before liberty as a matter of political priority, you are very mistaken.
    no, they put life, because you must have life to have liberty to enjoy happiness. See how that works?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Read Jefferson on life and liberty: "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two?"

    What makes me sick is that I would die to defend your rights and your life, when you would obviously give up your rights to live, and would quickly have me tortured despite my rights... May posterity forget that you were my countryman.
    Son, you would let Americans die rather then break the knee cap of a Kalid Sheik Mohammad. That makes you a terrorist enabler. I would break his ****ing knee cap and ensure AMERICANS live safe and free.

    That puts me way ahead of you, and the rest of the people here that would rather sit idly by and allow the deaths of innocent people. I care about their rights more then I do some scum bag. People like you lose wars, and get people killed.
    C.T.L.W. You figure it out
    My Endo doc went over my blood work. "I see your estrogen level is now at 315, do you feel like you have too much Estrogen now?"
    I told her "... N... N.. No..." and started crying.


  3. #73
    User TheStripey1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    left coast
    Last Seen
    06-21-11 @ 05:40 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    104

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    When death is staring us in the face there are very few thing in life which will fortify our spirit and strengthen our resolve. Sparing a terrorist the discomfort of water-boarding is not one of those things. Anyone who says otherwise has never faced their mortality.
    Ever been in combat? I have. That means I have faced my mortality and guess what, eth, I didn't forsake either my convictions or my principles.

    Torture is wrong plain and simple. Those that do it, those that authorize it and those who support it are wrong as well.
    Last edited by TheStripey1; 05-13-09 at 06:06 PM.
    I cannot teach anybody anything, I can only make them think.
    ~~ Socrates

  4. #74
    User TheStripey1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    left coast
    Last Seen
    06-21-11 @ 05:40 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    104

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I didn't say that. I was speaking contemporarily of intent and policy. Presently, it is the avowed policy of the United States military to limit collateral damage if at all possible. You will hear no such assurances from the enemy, in fact, their policy is entirely the opposite; they purposely target non-combatants - we do not.
    So your solution is to lower yourself and our nation to their level by engaging in torture?


    Since MrV didn't answer my question, perhaps you'd like to give it a shot...

    what's the difference between the nazis torturing captives and americans torturing captives?
    I cannot teach anybody anything, I can only make them think.
    ~~ Socrates

  5. #75
    You kids get off my lawn!
    Glinda's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    06-11-11 @ 12:01 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,716

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I wonder, would you be willing to apply this noble principle to others who covet their lives more than yourself? What about your family members? Should they become causalities of your fake nobility?
    Of course. My morals and ethics do not change with the wind. Nor do the morals and ethics of my family members - they'd all say the same thing. Guess I was just raised better than you. *shrug*

    Oh yes, "the grand scheme of things", whatever the hell that's supposed to mean. Nice catch-phrase, but not particularly meaningful. I know you're just talking out of your ass right now, as most people with a cavalier view of death do.
    Are you babbling because you like the look of your words on the screen, or do you have some kind of point to make here?

    You'll talk all day about sacrificing your life for this and that, and you'll extol "principles" and "morals", but when it comes down to it and death is staring you in the face you will realize, like all humans do, that you cherish your life above all else and that you'll cast aside anything standing between you and existence.
    And you know this because.....? Maybe you haven't noticed, sir, but you and I are NOTHING alike. To assume that I would react in a given situation exactly as you would react is the height of absurdity.

    You live in a fantasy world, one where your "morals" will protect you and your family from harm.
    Oh no. I'm quite aware of my mortality. I'm just not willing to torture others to preserve it. You see, I have morals and ethics and principles that do not change, regardless of the situation. And before you make any more stupid assumptions, I've looked down the barrel of a gun - convenience store robbery - the supposed fear of death you insist justifies any action didn't turn me into a puddle of blubbering crybaby.

    The only thing which protects you and affords you such a cavalier attitude towards death are the people who actually risk their lives, instead of just blabbing about it on an internet forum. Sometimes they need to get dirty, and sometimes the lines are blurred, but it's easy for your to condemn them, sitting from the comfort of you computer. Sometimes they need to get dirty, and sometimes the lines are blurred, but it's easy for your to condemn them, sitting from the comfort of you computer.
    Heh. Whatever you say, Col. Jessep.

  6. #76
    User TheStripey1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    left coast
    Last Seen
    06-21-11 @ 05:40 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    104

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I Piss on nothing sir, I reject your false claims that a terrorists rights supersede my right to live, or the lives of other American's to live free from terrorist attacks.
    no, they put life, because you must have life to have liberty to enjoy happiness. See how that works?

    Son, you would let Americans die rather then break the knee cap of a Kalid Sheik Mohammad. That makes you a terrorist enabler. I would break his ****ing knee cap and ensure AMERICANS live safe and free.

    That puts me way ahead of you, and the rest of the people here that would rather sit idly by and allow the deaths of innocent people. I care about their rights more then I do some scum bag. People like you lose wars, and get people killed.
    That puts you in the same category as all the nazis who were tried at Nuremburg after WWII. That's some company you keep, V. Birds of a feather and all that.

    Have you been to war, V? Or is your POV strictly from the sidelines?
    I cannot teach anybody anything, I can only make them think.
    ~~ Socrates

  7. #77
    free market communist
    Gardener's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    08-12-16 @ 12:15 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    26,661

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Let's say... next month there is a big news story of a terrorist attack stopped in the finals stages, like it was gonna go down that Monday before. You learn not only was it going to happen, but that your place of business, the flight you were on... whatever, was the target. You'd be DEAD right now if it had not been stopped.

    A few months go by, and it comes out that the information to stop that attack was obtained through water boarding or worse.

    Would you demand the "torturers" be tried for their "crimes"?

    I mean this in all seriousness.
    Cummon, now, first things first.

    I'm still working on the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  8. #78
    Your Huckleberry
    Lachean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Somewhere in VR
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,382

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I Piss on nothing sir, I reject your false claims that a terrorists rights supersede my right to live, or the lives of other American's to live free from terrorist attacks.
    no, they put life, because you must have life to have liberty to enjoy happiness. See how that works?

    Son, you would let Americans die rather then break the knee cap of a Kalid Sheik Mohammad. That makes you a terrorist enabler. I would break his ****ing knee cap and ensure AMERICANS live safe and free.

    That puts me way ahead of you, and the rest of the people here that would rather sit idly by and allow the deaths of innocent people. I care about their rights more then I do some scum bag. People like you lose wars, and get people killed.
    Supporting civil rights and being opposed to torture makes me a terrorist enabler?

    Yeah whatever Machiavelli, keep on preaching that the ends justify your immoral means. Given the terrorists created by the blowback from policies you support, you're the terrorist enabler. And you're doing exactly what Osama wants.
    Who left the fridge open?

  9. #79
    Sage
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    08-27-09 @ 06:41 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,344

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheStripey1 View Post
    And celticlord, your enemies believe the same of you.
    Of course they do. And the winner will be the one with the detectable heart beat when the smoke clears.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheStripey1 View Post
    IF you choose to lower yourself to their level by engaging in acts of torture, how are you any better than they? The answer is you are not. You are the same.
    I've never pretended to be any "better" than they. There's no lowering to be done, because I was never "higher" in the first place.

    I'm not some bigot who goes around preaching his own superiority. I'm just the stubborn SOB who prefers winning to losing, and living to dying.

    I like my life. I like the society I live in. Despite its many imperfections and the perverse and persistent existence of the Anti-Republicans, I even like the structure of our government. I can give long winded and high-minded rationalizations on why that structure is sound and why it works and why it is to be recommended. This is the society and the government that I choose for myself. It is, for me, the very best mankind has to offer.

    If another wants to decry it as the very worst, and that his way is the only correct and proper mode of human existence, I will argue with him, and if he gets violent about it, I will kill him. But I will never be so presumptuous as to believe his view was somehow morally degraded to my own.

  10. #80
    User TheStripey1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    left coast
    Last Seen
    06-21-11 @ 05:40 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    104

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Of course they do. And the winner will be the one with the detectable heart beat when the smoke clears.


    I've never pretended to be any "better" than they. There's no lowering to be done, because I was never "higher" in the first place.

    I'm not some bigot who goes around preaching his own superiority. I'm just the stubborn SOB who prefers winning to losing, and living to dying.

    I like my life. I like the society I live in. Despite its many imperfections and the perverse and persistent existence of the Anti-Republicans, I even like the structure of our government. I can give long winded and high-minded rationalizations on why that structure is sound and why it works and why it is to be recommended. This is the society and the government that I choose for myself. It is, for me, the very best mankind has to offer.

    If another wants to decry it as the very worst, and that his way is the only correct and proper mode of human existence, I will argue with him, and if he gets violent about it, I will kill him. But I will never be so presumptuous as to believe his view was somehow morally degraded to my own.
    Our own country's principles USED to be against torture until bush et al perverted them. We used to have a higher standard than our enemies, now thanks to chickenhawks we no longer have that moral high ground. By torturing prisoners, our nation has been lowered to the same sorry level as nazi germany, pol pot, north korea and any of the other myriad of despicable dictatorships.

    What you would choose to do in the face of danger has absolutely no bearing on what our country should do. None whatsoever. And were you to kill someone because you think you've been wronged somehow, then you will be arrested and tried in a court of law and it will be up to a jury of your peers to decide whether or not you again walk free.

    Either we are a country of laws or we are not. I like to think we are.

    How about you?
    I cannot teach anybody anything, I can only make them think.
    ~~ Socrates

Page 8 of 12 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •