View Poll Results: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

Voters
25. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, even though I lived, the law is the law and they broke it.

    10 40.00%
  • No, they did what needed to be done.

    9 36.00%
  • I have no clue how I'd react in that situation.

    6 24.00%
Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 115

Thread: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

  1. #11
    Norville Rogers
    Kernel Sanders's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 08:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,730

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Probably not. It would still be wrong, and it would still be illegal, and I would still recognize those facts. I just can't say that I'd care.

  2. #12
    Sage
    Laila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Seen
    05-17-16 @ 11:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    10,095

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    I'll be happy to draw a line somewhere, but when folks redraw the lines whenever it suits their whimsical sense of conscience, then I draw the line wherever it best benefits me and mine.
    Fair enough but don't expect the law to change with you.


  3. #13
    Banned gree0232's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    All over
    Last Seen
    12-30-09 @ 03:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    1,341

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Well, I would like to ask how torturing someone would save 'my' life?

    "I overheard of a nefarious plot to tie your shoe laces together that could have potentially caused you to fall down the stairs and break your neck. But I put everyone in the office coffee room and gave them endless power point presentations on office safety rules until the 'criminals' broke!"

    All matter aside, there are a couple of things to bear in mind with torture, and the first is that it not only doesn't work (which is why evidence of torture negates confessions in court) but it actually costs lives.

    On the battlefield, you actually want your enemy to surrender, it means your enemies spirit is broken and the war, and subsequent killing, ends faster. If your enemy believes that he will be tortured upon surrendering, guess what he isn't going to do? Surrender.

    That means you have to go shoot him, or bomb him, or something else, which can either result in MORE friendly casualties and more innocent dead civilians. So torture is actually a way to stealing your enemies.

    There is also the informational aspect. If torture is widespread, you pretty much give your enemies a freebie. You give them a legitimate grievence by saying we must resist the torturers. You effectively abandon the rule of law that makes you 'reasonable', and you become an unstable threat in the eyes of the world.

    Then there is that pesky unreliability. Under torture, you can be made to admit to damb near anything (those that don't simply disappear). Do you think proof of your enemies nefarious activity will be believed if it were cohersed? Do you think 'intelligence' gathered from handlers who have their own ideas about what is happening will not subsequently produce 'evidence' that just 'happens' to support their claims?

    And when you act on bad intelligence, as our recent history proves, does that save lives or cost lives?

    There is a reason we as a nation abandoned torture and enshrined concepts of the rule of law in our Constitution. Abandoning it because you are scared in bad enough, abandoning it because you are too arrogant to admit that it is wrong, that it is somehow actually right .... that is another thing all together, and far worse.

  4. #14
    Guru
    tlmorg02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Louisville, Ky
    Last Seen
    07-23-15 @ 09:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    3,347

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Let's say... next month there is a big news story of a terrorist attack stopped in the finals stages, like it was gonna go down that Monday before. You learn not only was it going to happen, but that your place of business, the flight you were on... whatever, was the target. You'd be DEAD right now if it had not been stopped.

    A few months go by, and it comes out that the information to stop that attack was obtained through water boarding or worse.

    Would you demand the "torturers" be tried for their "crimes"?

    I mean this in all seriousness.

    I have no idea how I would react. The core of this question is whether principles matter more than reality and outcomes. Religion is based on principles and we are taught that they should triumph over our own personal needs. Biologically, we want to survive and would allow torture to preserve our own lives. In my own life, I am split. I want to live, but not in a chaotic world where the government is free to torture as it deems necessary.

  5. #15
    You kids get off my lawn!
    Glinda's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    06-11-11 @ 12:01 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,716

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Let's say... next month there is a big news story of a terrorist attack stopped in the finals stages, like it was gonna go down that Monday before. You learn not only was it going to happen, but that your place of business, the flight you were on... whatever, was the target. You'd be DEAD right now if it had not been stopped.
    I'll be dead one day, no matter what. I've lived a good, honorable life and have done nothing to be ashamed of. When it's my time, I'll go without regrets.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    A few months go by, and it comes out that the information to stop that attack was obtained through water boarding or worse.

    Would you demand the "torturers" be tried for their "crimes"?
    Yes. I believe in the rule of law. Without it, we are no better than those who would do us harm. If I die because our nation was honorable and actually adhered to that rule of law by not torturing people they think might maybe know something, so be it. I'm not really all that important in the grand scheme of things, and neither are you.

  6. #16
    King Of The Dog Pound

    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    30,797

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Yes. But I would not call for it; should be an option.


    No Lives Matter

  7. #17
    Banned gree0232's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    All over
    Last Seen
    12-30-09 @ 03:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    1,341

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Another, and perhaps better way to ask this question:

    Would you submit yourself to be horrifically tortured to save some nameless person .... somewhere .... ? Or maybe not?

    Would you submit to being waterboarded 183 times to admit to things that you already admited too (at least according to the FBI)? Would you submit yourself to electrocution? Nails being ripped out? Being kept awake for without sleep for two weeks straight? Beaten? Malnorished? Denied proper medical care so your wounds festered and made you more uncomfortable? Left on in the cold perpetually on the verge of frostbite?

    Would you endure that to maybe save 'someone's' life? Or maybe not?

    If it happened to YOU would you still think that it was not something that should involve punishment? Because, heh, it MIGHT have saved someone's life ... or maybe not?

  8. #18
    Running to Happiness
    Renae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Antonio Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    33,222
    Blog Entries
    10

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Glinda,

    Terrorist have two rights. They have the right to stop being terrorist and find other ways of bringing about whatever change they seek.

    And they have a right to suffer any and all forms of pain and anguish for their behavior in the course fighting terrorist.

    It's not a hard choice for me. Life > Terrorist.

    It's really that easy.
    C.T.L.W. You figure it out
    My Endo doc went over my blood work. "I see your estrogen level is now at 315, do you feel like you have too much Estrogen now?"
    I told her "... N... N.. No..." and started crying.


  9. #19
    Running to Happiness
    Renae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Antonio Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    33,222
    Blog Entries
    10

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    Another, and perhaps better way to ask this question:

    Would you submit yourself to be horrifically tortured to save some nameless person .... somewhere .... ? Or maybe not?

    Would you submit to being waterboarded 183 times to admit to things that you already admited too (at least according to the FBI)? Would you submit yourself to electrocution? Nails being ripped out? Being kept awake for without sleep for two weeks straight? Beaten? Malnorished? Denied proper medical care so your wounds festered and made you more uncomfortable? Left on in the cold perpetually on the verge of frostbite?

    Would you endure that to maybe save 'someone's' life? Or maybe not?

    If it happened to YOU would you still think that it was not something that should involve punishment? Because, heh, it MIGHT have saved someone's life ... or maybe not?
    Nope, but then, I'm not a terrorist out to kill people.

    Why do you treat terrorist like victims? Do you have sympathy for them or agree with them?
    C.T.L.W. You figure it out
    My Endo doc went over my blood work. "I see your estrogen level is now at 315, do you feel like you have too much Estrogen now?"
    I told her "... N... N.. No..." and started crying.


  10. #20
    You kids get off my lawn!
    Glinda's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    06-11-11 @ 12:01 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,716

    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Why do you treat terrorist like victims? Do you have sympathy for them or agree with them?
    First, you have to prove the individual is a terrorist and not some guy who got $2000 from GW Bush for turning in his much-hated neighbor for having an ugly yard.

    How's that going, by the way?

Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •