View Poll Results: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

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  • Yes, even though I lived, the law is the law and they broke it.

    10 40.00%
  • No, they did what needed to be done.

    9 36.00%
  • I have no clue how I'd react in that situation.

    6 24.00%
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Thread: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

  1. #101
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    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeTh!nk3r View Post
    The law is the law and we have it for a reason.
    I wonder if you realize how many enemies have been "tortured" to allow you to be a free thinker?

  2. #102
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    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
    OK, saying that terrorism is wrong is one thing.

    Saying that torture is right? Not only is that another thing, it is wrong.

    It also helps the terrorists recruit by giving them propoganda.

    You pick up arms, we WILL kill you. You put them down, we WILL talk to you. Why is torture any part of that conversation?
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    The epic failure of your logic is, the terrorist have ZERO desire to talk to you, don't fear death, and ANYTHING we do other then submit to their cause and convert inspires them.

    I know that is an alien concept to some, but that's reality, welcome to it.

    And again, if your life was in my hands in a ticking time bomb situation with a bad guy in custody... you'd go home alive.

    Where as I'd be buried with all the rest killed because you and others like you, are more afraid of hurting a terrorist then saving innocent people from death.
    I would say there is another flaw in your argument. I know it's not popular to say but these "terrorists" are not all brainless zombies intent on destroying America.

    They were born with loving families and thinking brains much like you and I. It takes many years of political and religious indoctrination to bring about enough hate to want to kill innocents for some cause.

    ...In WW2, do you know why germans would often surrender to us but never to the russians? It's because they knew we would treat them well. Despite the massive Nazi propaganda machine, many germans had relatives in America and knew that we were good, decent people that would let them live if they put down their guns. Countless lives on both sides were saved because of our inate goodness.

    Since there are no standing armies on the opposing side in this "war on terror", we have to use the battle of ideas even more than tanks or bombs.

    Those who seek to do us harm only win when we compromise our values.

  3. #103
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    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    My point in all this, was to highlight the flaw of the torture debate.

    Torture is the inteintional infliction fo cruelty on another human being for no other reason then to inflict pain and agony on said person.

    There are circumstances where methods that are less desireable to be used, but shoudl remain an option if teh circumstance arises. I'm not calling for beating people just to "find out what they might know" or any other non-sense like that.


    The problem is, there are too many people who cannot fathom using force to save lives, and that mindset amazes the hell out of me.


    As for your hypothetical Z, it wouldn't take a vigilante to take care of some man that raped my daughter and society failed to bring them to justice, I can promise you that.
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  4. #104
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    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe1991 View Post
    I would say there is another flaw in your argument. I know it's not popular to say but these "terrorists" are not all brainless zombies intent on destroying America.

    They were born with loving families and thinking brains much like you and I. It takes many years of political and religious indoctrination to bring about enough hate to want to kill innocents for some cause.

    ...In WW2, do you know why germans would often surrender to us but never to the russians? It's because they knew we would treat them well. Despite the massive Nazi propaganda machine, many germans had relatives in America and knew that we were good, decent people that would let them live if they put down their guns. Countless lives on both sides were saved because of our inate goodness.

    Since there are no standing armies on the opposing side in this "war on terror", we have to use the battle of ideas even more than tanks or bombs.

    Those who seek to do us harm only win when we compromise our values.

    Yeah... okay.

    We play nice, and innocent people die, but you get to feel good knowing that we "kept our values". People like you get others killed.

    Terrorist rejected that "good loving family" ideal, and their cultural background doesn't equate with ours. German soldiers were forced to war. Terrorist VOLUNTEER.

    Big difference, but you ignored that.
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  5. #105
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    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Wow, the "trap you by hypothetical."

    I have no idea how I would react. I would hope that I would be glad to be alive but not let my personal emotion remove my belief that torture is a wrong and is a crime. The reason is that innocent people are being tortured because somebody has figured that if we get even a few small bits of useful information it's worth the barbaric victimization of innocents.

    I do not agree with that.
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  6. #106
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    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Yeah... okay.

    We play nice, and innocent people die, but you get to feel good knowing that we "kept our values". People like you get others killed.

    Terrorist rejected that "good loving family" ideal, and their cultural background doesn't equate with ours. German soldiers were forced to war. Terrorist VOLUNTEER.

    Big difference, but you ignored that.
    But you advocate action in which innocent people are hurt and killed as well. And this torture thing, using extremes to justify an overall ability to engage in it is not credible. And if you use torture often, as you suggest we have the ability to, then you're going to catch innocent people up in it. War, death penalty, torture, etc. you're going to get innocent people.
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  7. #107
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    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Yeah... okay.

    We play nice, and innocent people die, but you get to feel good knowing that we "kept our values". People like you get others killed.
    Bull****, your faux self righteous nonsense is not lost on reasonable people. How amazingly ****ed up do you have to be to actually blame a person who wants to maintain some semblance of moral decency on this issue for deaths that occur as a result of deliberate terrorist activity. You have absolutely no way to substantiate this obvious insult.

    Terrorist rejected that "good loving family" ideal, and their cultural background doesn't equate with ours. German soldiers were forced to war. Terrorist VOLUNTEER.
    And that's just one thing that makes them "the bad guy." By the way, in case you didn't realize this, our military is all volunteer. Your analogy is on the floor.
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  8. #108
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    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Yeah... okay.

    We play nice, and innocent people die, but you get to feel good knowing that we "kept our values". People like you get others killed.
    Another personal attack solely because someone disagrees with you?

    Truth is people with your way of thinking (i.e. Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Yoo, etc.) get innocent people not only arrested and imprisoned for indefinite periods of time but, tortured. People who think like you stain America's reputation in the world.

    You think because we have the power that because one group of people attacked us and act like animals that that gives us the moral excuse to imprison and then torture anybody we want to. Bullies behave like that. Dictators behave like that. America does not want to be either.
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  9. #109
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    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    My point in all this, was to highlight the flaw of the torture debate.

    Torture is the inteintional infliction fo cruelty on another human being for no other reason then to inflict pain and agony on said person.
    You are wrong. It's clearly defined as also being for the intent to extract information.

    There are circumstances where methods that are less desireable to be used, but shoudl remain an option if teh circumstance arises. I'm not calling for beating people just to "find out what they might know" or any other non-sense like that.
    That is exactly what is happening. Torture is almost exclusively a fishing expedition. You torture because you don't know. If you already know, torture isn't warranted. There are other, more reliable way to corroborate information.

    The problem is, there are too many people who cannot fathom using force to save lives, and that mindset amazes the hell out of me.
    Patently false assertion. By the nature of why you are torturing you have no idea if you are actually going to save lives. You are fishing.
    Hi. TOGTFO.

  10. #110
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    Re: Would you call for prosecution if someone used torture to save your life?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    . A principle the Anti-Republicans with their torture witch hunts are doing their level damndest to destroy.
    For ****s sake, why do you engage in this crap? It just blows any credibility you might have had out the window.
    Hi. TOGTFO.

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