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If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

If you oppose same-sex marriage, are you...


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Typing in caps does not get your point across any better.

I disagree. I have already said why.



Again I have already stated why. I don't think you need me to repeat myself.



No. As history has shown us time and time again what you said is absolutely not true when the government gets involved even deeper in anything.

I have not seen any posts from you addressing any of these points. What is the post number.
 
I think your hatred of them is based on a fear, psychologically speaking I assume its fear of your own homosexuality.

Yes you are to an extent gay...

Again more lies and baseless accusations meant to demonize and shame the opposition to gay marriage. Your lies does not help your cause.
 
This is the first thing I have seen you post I actually agree with.

Well said.

I am glad we can agree on something. When you look and see you as very conservative and me very liberal there may be only certain points we can hit on. What is nice and refreshing is that we can have disagreement and still be respectful of the others positions. Kudos to us for that.
 
Again more lies and baseless accusations meant to demonize and shame the opposition to gay marriage. Your lies does not help your cause.

Its not baseless when I have your entire posting history as evidence.
 
If a person is against gay-marriage, it not only tells you their stance, but also tells you that they have failed to reason and they have failed to be open-minded.

Or that they are willing to stick by the principles they think are correct and right.

People who oppose gay-marriage are clinging to some misguided belief, whatever it may be, but they are still ignorantly clinging to it.

And those who try to put down others for sticking to a moral and principled compass are called what? :roll:
 
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Or that they are willing to stick by the principles they think are correct and right.

And who try to put down others for sticking to a moral and principled compass are called what? :roll:

Don't you see that you're the one sanctimoniously putting others down for who they are?

How is homosexually not a "correct and right moral principle"? If two people love eachother...
 
Don't you see that you're the one sanctimoniously putting others down for who they are?

That is ridicules, I am not putting down anyone. I don't agree with someones life style so I do not support it.

If you think that is putting someone down you may have some issues.

How is homosexually not a "correct and right moral principle"? If two people love eachother...

According to my religion it is not, no more than lying or stealing etc. Now I don't go around putting anyone down over it or think less of the individual. But I will not support a life style I think is wrong, period.
 
That is ridicules, I am not putting down anyone. I don't agree with someones life style so I do not support it.

If you think that is putting someone down you may have some issues.

That isn't ridiculous, its the definition of "sanctimonious."

I think to call someone's lifestyle immoral because they are homosexual, that is a put down. If that is an issue, please explain to me what the issue is.

According to my religion it is not, no more than lying or stealing etc. Now I don't go around putting anyone down over it or think less of the individual. But I will not support a life style I think is wrong, period.

Bull****, you don't look down on liars, thieves, murderers or sinners?

Besides, your bronze age religion is a terrible standard for morality.
 
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I think to call someone's lifestyle immoral because they are homosexual, that is a put down. If that is an issue, please explain to me what the issue is.

No it is not. If you do not believe it is immoral and want to support it that is good. But don't try and say I am putting someone down because I will not support the life style. I do not support illegal immigration either. Am I now putting down illegal immigrants because I think that is wrong as well?

Bull****, you don't look down on liars, thieves, murderers or sinners?

No I don't. I am no better than anyone else for any reason. This does not mean I am going to support what they do or let them escape punishment for crimes if they commit them.

Besides, your bronze age religion is a terrible standard for morality.

And that is your issue, not mine.
 
No it is not. If you do not believe it is immoral and want to support it that is good. But don't try and say I am putting someone down because I will not support the life style. I do not support illegal immigration either. Am I now putting down illegal immigrants because I think that is wrong as well?

To call their actions illegal is not a put down. To call them sinners and immoral would be.

I don't know what your problem is with putting people down, but you're doing it. There's nothing wrong with that if you truly feel morally justified in your identification.

No I don't. I am no better than anyone else for any reason. This does not mean I am going to support what they do or let them escape punishment for crimes if they commit them.

I really don't believe you, No better? Tell me was Christ better than Hitler?

Some people are better than others.

And that is your issue, not mine.

Your bronze age barbaric morality is my issue? :lol: So long as you aren't using the government to impose it, no it is not my issue.
 
To call their actions illegal is not a put down. To call them sinners and immoral would be.

You can take it however you like.

I don't know what your problem is with putting people down, but you're doing it.

No I am not. If you do not believe in the God of Abraham or his teachings and do not feel God is even real, why would you take it as a put down? It should mean nothing to you if it is no more than a fairy tail to you anyway.

It would be like a Muslim telling me I am going to hell for worshiping Christ. I don't believe or accept it. It is his opinion and no reflection on me, so why would I be offended in any way? I would say you are wrong and have a good day.

There's nothing wrong with that if you truly feel morally justified in your identification.

Remember we are to love the sinner and hate the sin. So it has little to do with my affection or reactions to anyone. But I will not condone the sin.

I really don't believe you, No better? Tell me was Christ better than Hitler?

So because we do not agree I am now a liar? I see.

Christ is God, yes he was. He is the only one who is righteous. Are you and I any better than Hitler? No.

Some people are better than others.

In your opinion.

Your bronze age barbaric morality is my issue? :lol: So long as you aren't using the government to impose it, no it is not my issue.

OK your true colors come out. I see. Well I guess we are done here.

Have a good one.
 
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You can take it however you like.

No I am not. If you do not believe in the God of Abraham or his teachings and do not feel God is even real, why would you take it as a put down? It should mean nothing to you if it is no more than a fairy tail to you anyway.

It would be like a Muslim telling me I am going to hell for worshiping Christ. I don't believe or accept it. It is his opinion and no reflection on me, so why would I be offended in any way? I would say you are wrong and have a good day.

Remember we are to love the sinner and hate the sin. So it has little to do with my affection or reactions to anyone. But I will not condone the sin.

So because we do not agree I am now a liar? I see.

I did not call you a liar, I said I do not believe you. I do not believe you believe you either.

Christ is God, yes he was. He is the only one who is righteous. Are you and I any better than Hitler? No.

Yes I am, I am not responsible for genocide. I have lived a moral life, free of fraud or the use of force on others.

A person who lives a moral life is better than a raping madman. If you do not agree, your morality is certainly suspect.

In your opinion.

No, by the objective standard of a human life.

OK your true colors come out. I see. Well I guess we are done here.

Have a good one.

Unwilling to debate the virtues of a bronze age morality? Of slavery or violence against people of other faiths? Very well :2wave:

But if that is the case, if your dogma is not up for debate, why use it as the standard for condemnation on a debate forum? If I cannot debate your standard, I cannot debate arguments derived from it. Are you interested in an honest debate? Or does the fact I regard Leviticus as barbaric turn you away?
 
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Or that they are willing to stick by the principles they think are correct and right.

Yeah I respect the fact they have an opinion and respect their opinion, but what they are doing is blindly sticking.



And those who try to put down others for sticking to a moral and principled compass are called what? :roll:

I don't know what you are talking about. I'm talking about people who cling to false morals, and what they "think" are principles, when it is actually something like fear.
 
If a person is against gay-marriage, it not only tells you their stance, but also tells you that they have failed to reason and they have failed to be open-minded. People who oppose gay-marriage are clinging to some misguided belief, whatever it may be, but they are still ignorantly clinging to it.

say what?

I'm against gay marriage. But then again, I'm against government marriage for all. Civil unions as the legal three way contract, let Churches, clubs, whatever handle the religious aspect. If marriage is really as "religious" as some here like to pretend, then they should have no problem with Pagan Handfasting religious marriage, Satanic marriage, Islamic marriage, Buddhist marriage and all that good stuff outside of government.
 
Could not agree more. This is why I want the state to get the heck out of the marriage business altogether.

The problem with removing state recognition of marriage altogether is that you create a host of legal issues as it relates to custody of children, property, and medical issues (such as speaking for a person in they are incapacitated).

Even if those issues were to be resolved somehow, we still have to deal with other nations that do have state recognition of marriages. For example, say you wanted to adopt from another country, you would not be able to do so in many countries because they specifically require foreign adoptive parents to be married, and expect state recognition of that marriage. The same would be true with tax laws in other countries (say you worked abroad), property ownership in other nations, and so on.

The fact is, its completely unworkable for the state to simply not recognize marriages at all. Its also rather petty really. Basically, its like saying well if gays and lesbians can get married, then the state should just quit recognizing any marriage. Thats the kind of thing a 5 year old would do when they did not get their way.
 
say what?

I'm against gay marriage. But then again, I'm against government marriage for all. Civil unions as the legal three way contract, let Churches, clubs, whatever handle the religious aspect.

I'm not saying that marriage is necessarily a religious thing all the time. The problem is that people usually use religion to backup their arguments against gay-marriage, which makes no sense since some people have different religions or no religion.

If marriage is really as "religious" as some here like to pretend, then they should have no problem with Pagan Handfasting religious marriage, Satanic marriage, Islamic marriage, Buddhist marriage and all that good stuff outside of government.

Again, I have no problem with religious marriages. I have a problem with people using it as justification to deny the right for someone else to do the same thing. Hypocrites are the problem.
 
I did not call you a liar, I said I do not believe you. I do not believe you believe you either.

Read that statement back to yourself.

Yes I am, I am not responsible for genocide. I have lived a moral life, free of fraud or the use of force on others.

So what?

A person who lives a moral life is better than a raping madman. If you do not agree, your morality is certainly suspect.

I do not agree and you can suspect all you like.

No, by the objective standard of a human life.

The objective standard of human life? :lol:

Unwilling to debate the virtues of a bronze age morality? Of slavery or violence against people of other faiths? Very well :2wave:

Not at all. In fact go ahead and put it in real debates, I would be happy to.

For this thread it is really off topic.

But if that is the case, if your dogma is not up for debate, why use it as the standard for condemnation on a debate forum?

I am not using as a standard for anything on this forum. You asked a question and I truthfully answered it. You did not like the answer and decided to go off topic.

If I cannot debate your standard, I cannot debate arguments derived from it. Are you interested in an honest debate? Or does the fact I regard Leviticus as barbaric turn you away?

I love honest debate.

It has more to do with your inability to accept other people have a different opinion without being a personal affront.
 
Oh wow. You derive the value of your marriage by the actions of others in their marriages?

Don't tell your spouse that.

If you had actually read what I said in context, you would know you are completely off track.

I was talking about the government. :roll:
 
The problem with removing state recognition of marriage altogether is that you create a host of legal issues as it relates to custody of children, property, and medical issues (such as speaking for a person in they are incapacitated).

Even if those issues were to be resolved somehow, we still have to deal with other nations that do have state recognition of marriages. For example, say you wanted to adopt from another country, you would not be able to do so in many countries because they specifically require foreign adoptive parents to be married, and expect state recognition of that marriage. The same would be true with tax laws in other countries (say you worked abroad), property ownership in other nations, and so on.

The fact is, its completely unworkable for the state to simply not recognize marriages at all. Its also rather petty really. Basically, its like saying well if gays and lesbians can get married, then the state should just quit recognizing any marriage. Thats the kind of thing a 5 year old would do when they did not get their way.

Because it did not work well before government got involved. Hmmmm...
 
I don't know what you are talking about. I'm talking about people who cling to false morals, and what they "think" are principles, when it is actually something like fear.

Most of us don't fear homosexuals or anything even close.

I don't even know where this silly "fear of homosexuals" thing even came from. It's allot of things but I doubt the majority are against it because of fear. They are against it because they think it is wrong, period.
 
Most of us don't fear homosexuals or anything even close.

I don't even know where this silly "fear of homosexuals" thing even came from. It's allot of things but I doubt the majority are against it because of fear. They are against it because they think it is wrong, period.

When asked why they think it is wrong, they refer to their own religion.
 
When asked why they think it is wrong, they refer to their own religion.

Yes.

How is that fear? I guess is what I want to know.
 
Yes.

How is that fear? I guess is what I want to know.

That's not an example of fear. Its not always that people use. If I said that its "fear" every time, then I apologize. Its fear only sometimes, otherwise its religious ignorance or something else.
 
A little off topic, but...

Today I learned that people tend to get really all bent out of shape on the issue of gay marriage. I don't mean those against it, I mean people on both sides. Can some one explain it to me? I guess I just don't see the big deal kinda thing. I understand it's important to people, but so are alot of things that don't generate the kind of emotional reaction that this issue does.

What is odd is that the general attitude among gay people I know on the topic is that gay marriage would be nice, and it's going to happen soon, but it's not a really huge deal. It certainly does not seem to inflame the emotions like this thread and a couple others on this topic.
 
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