View Poll Results: If you oppose same-sex marriage, are you...

Voters
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  • ... ignorant?

    9 19.57%
  • ... bigoted?

    9 19.57%
  • ... homophobic?

    9 19.57%
  • ... stupid (which differs from ignorant)?

    6 13.04%
  • ... unreasonable?

    11 23.91%
  • ... unenlightened?

    7 15.22%
  • ... (all of the above)

    8 17.39%
  • ... (all of the above, as well as [specify])

    1 2.17%
  • ... (none of the above)

    18 39.13%
  • ... (other)

    11 23.91%
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Thread: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

  1. #211
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    You stated:

    A to enjoy a right or privilege that group B enjoys, they must demonstrate that there is history and tradition of group A having that right or privilege?

    Its an absurd argument that you are making. Our rights and privileges are based in the basic principle that you have the right to live your life the way you choose to so long as your actions do not impede the ability of another individual to do the same. The infringements of this are only when there is an overriding societal concern. For example, if there was a cholera epidemic, your right to live your life the way you chose to might be temporarily restricted because of the dangers to others. Another example is with environmental protections and the commons (parks, public lands). For example, your right to live your life the way you choose to does not extend to having a daily tire fire on your land as there is an overriding societal concern as to the dangers of doing so to others.

    The problem is that there is no reasonable argument to be made as to an overriding social concern state recognition of same sex marriages. It neither impacts the rights and freedoms of others, nor does it present a reasonable danger to others. The only real argument against it is the personal bias of others against it. However, in a free society, even if those others are in the majority, thats not good enough to justify the denial of a right or priviliage under the law that everyone else enjoys.
    So even if I provide you with source material, you don't care.

    Well hey, I don't take issue with that. I've made up my minde on the issue as well and won't fault you for doing the same; but why ask for refrence material when you're closed to it?

    That part I don't get.

  2. #212
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I didn't think that your comment deserved anything in depth at that point, it was just a passing insult comment you made to dismiss my arguments and so I didn't feel the necessity then to waste time trying to explain things to someone whom had already made up his mind to dismiss all of my arguments no matter what. It doesn't change that which I had written about constraint of the branches of government and accountability being held to them.
    It's not "no matter what", it's "untill gay marriage is about the family".

    But yeah untill then I realy don't care what pathertic argument you bring. I've heard them all. I know they're dishonest and I've become quite good at rejecting them because your predocessors also thought they were comming up with some ingenious new logic I've heard a thousand times before.

  3. #213
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Exactly...
    No, not exactly. You argue that the burden of proof in on the majority that looks to oppress the minority. Its exactly the other way around -- the burden is on the oppressed to show that their rights are being voiolated.

    Either way, your on the side of tyranny as you want to take your personal bias and codify that into law.
    Which is OK when its YOUR personal bias that's been codified...
    But, I know, that's different.

  4. #214
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It's not "no matter what", it's "untill gay marriage is about the family".
    Hmmmm, interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I've just grown so tired of quoting Loving, Skinner and others, which conclusivly prove you wrong, that I no longer take any of your argments seriously.
    Hmm...does that say "until gay marriage is about family" No, it's an absolute statement. It is a "no matter what".

    So...who's being dishonest now Jerry? It seems measured to be you. And the second half of your post is horse **** as well. You refuse to allow other arguments based on rights such as contract because you can't argue against those. So you refuse to accept anyone else's arguments on the front less they agree to your preconceived conditions on what gay marriage is really about. I've always been straight forward with my arguments, based on the innate and inalienable rights of the individual. The dishonest one, as proven here, isn't me but rather it is you.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #215
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    I have 5 words for you: Iowa, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine.
    Those states did not put it to a vote on a ballott. AFAIK

    Also, why don't some people like the vote? Is it because the analogy of mine was right on the money and those people had no answer?

  6. #216
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    I've never really cared about gay marriage. I think the entire argument is predicated upon a giant fallacy, i.e. that a state-sanctioned marriage is somehow a right.

    Obliging positive recognition from other people and receiving pecuniary benefits from the government because of your lifestyle choices is not a right.

  7. #217
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Hmmmm, interesting.

    Hmm...does that say "until gay marriage is about family" No, it's an absolute statement. It is a "no matter what".

    So...who's being dishonest now Jerry? It seems measured to be you. And the second half of your post is horse **** as well. You refuse to allow other arguments based on rights such as contract because you can't argue against those. So you refuse to accept anyone else's arguments on the front less they agree to your preconceived conditions on what gay marriage is really about. I've always been straight forward with my arguments, based on the innate and inalienable rights of the individual. The dishonest one, as proven here, isn't me but rather it is you.
    You've made a pro-gm argument based on the good of the family?

  8. #218
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You've made a pro-gm argument based on the good of the family?
    Nope, I base my arguments on the rights of the individual.

    But if you want, gay marriage can increase the numbers of potential adoptive families out there. If they are allowed to marry and adopt, they can provide loving homes to orphans and you'll have a larger number of people wishing to do so. And whether or not you want to argue if there's statistical difference in quality of childcare between heterosexual compared to homosexual families, a family of two loving parents is bound to be better than the State. Thus you give children the opportunity to be adopted into a loving home by making available a larger set of two parent homes who would be willing to adopt.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #219
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Nope, I base my arguments on the rights of the individual.
    Since I hold that marriage is not about the indiviguval, why would you be suprised that I don't take your arguments seriously?

  10. #220
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Since I hold that marriage is not about the indiviguval, why would you be suprised that I don't take your arguments seriously?
    I gave you one. This isn't about being surprised or not, this is about your honesty. You said, based on my claim that people who tend to use the marriage is man/woman thing is religion based that you'd never take any of my arguments (regardless of subject or content) seriously again. This isn't limited to just your stance against the right to contract. I pointed out after another of your typical posts about me that I didn't feel in the follow up to your dismissive post that I should have to well qualify at that point any response to you since your post deserved no such thought and time. To which you tried to say I was dishonest and that your dismissal of all my arguments was not so and that it was based particularly on the argument of family as related to gay marriage. I showed where this was a lie, and you in fact had used an absolute statement. So all this "why would I be surprised" stuff is further deflect away from your dishonest nature.

    Though I did even take the time to give you a family argument. Though you are ignoring all my arguments so I suppose it doesn't matter.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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