View Poll Results: If you oppose same-sex marriage, are you...

Voters
46. You may not vote on this poll
  • ... ignorant?

    9 19.57%
  • ... bigoted?

    9 19.57%
  • ... homophobic?

    9 19.57%
  • ... stupid (which differs from ignorant)?

    6 13.04%
  • ... unreasonable?

    11 23.91%
  • ... unenlightened?

    7 15.22%
  • ... (all of the above)

    8 17.39%
  • ... (all of the above, as well as [specify])

    1 2.17%
  • ... (none of the above)

    18 39.13%
  • ... (other)

    11 23.91%
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Thread: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

  1. #161
    Student YamiB.'s Avatar
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    I would say unreasonable is the most accurate answer because the opponents of same-sex marriage have never put forward a valid reason for their argument.

    Bigoted, ignorant, and homophobic would apply to varying degrees. At least bigoted or ignorant could probably be applied to a majority of the group for using faulty logic/reasoning or taking their position for simply hating homosexuals.
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  2. #162
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Yes and no. No more tax breaks for being married or any other state sanctioned benefits at all.
    I think you need to think this through a little bit more. Married are more likely to pay property taxes capital gains taxes and much more. They are more likey to have serious concerns in regards to investment.

  3. #163
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So reality here dictates over the mandates of theocracy, and the measured world is the world by which we interact. Saying that the marriage license can be abolished doesn't negate anything, that's a simplistic overture to try to dismiss an argument you can't argue against (one rooted in the rights of the individual). What exists now, what in reality is the interaction? Marriage is mediated by the marriage license, a State-issued contract. While I agree that the correct solution is the abolition of the marriage license, that does not negate the fact that it does exist and we must deal with it as it exists. As a State-issued contract, the government is forbidden from infringing upon an individual's ability to freely engage in the contract on religious grounds. Man/woman is essentially a religious argument, as that restriction has no bearing on actual terms and execution of contract. The marriage contract contains within it many active contracts important for a person's daily life. Who gets to make life/death decisions, taxes, insurance, estate issues, etc. There's no reason why someone shouldn't be able to choose whom they want to be able to execute these positions and wield the proper authority to do so. The marriage license has entangled itself to include all these things, and as they are contracts dealing with the execution of certain desires depenant upon condition, a person is free to choose who they want heading those decisions. To deny same-sex marriage is to deny someone the ability to dictate mandates of contract over activities of their daily lives. Most certainly an infringement upon their right to contract.
    I've just grown so tired of quoting Loving, Skinner and others, which conclusivly prove you wrong, that I no longer take any of your argments seriously.

  4. #164
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I actually don't think you're understanding yet. You insult argument without understanding the full of it. Whether the marriage license can be abolished or not is in fact extremely relevant because all further action is taken from that reality. Reality is the government is secular. While it shouldn't have taken over marriage, it did and that's reality and has to be dealt with. Because government took over marriage, it moved marriage from the realm of religion to the realm of State-issued contract. The right to contract is a fundamental right of the individual, and denying one's right to contract is an infringement upon their rights and liberties. A fundamental reason why government was made in the first place was to ensure the rights and liberties of the People.

    So reality here dictates over the mandates of theocracy, and the measured world is the world by which we interact. Saying that the marriage license can be abolished doesn't negate anything, that's a simplistic overture to try to dismiss an argument you can't argue against (one rooted in the rights of the individual). What exists now, what in reality is the interaction? Marriage is mediated by the marriage license, a State-issued contract. While I agree that the correct solution is the abolition of the marriage license, that does not negate the fact that it does exist and we must deal with it as it exists. As a State-issued contract, the government is forbidden from infringing upon an individual's ability to freely engage in the contract on religious grounds. Man/woman is essentially a religious argument, as that restriction has no bearing on actual terms and execution of contract. The marriage contract contains within it many active contracts important for a person's daily life. Who gets to make life/death decisions, taxes, insurance, estate issues, etc. There's no reason why someone shouldn't be able to choose whom they want to be able to execute these positions and wield the proper authority to do so. The marriage license has entangled itself to include all these things, and as they are contracts dealing with the execution of certain desires depenant upon condition, a person is free to choose who they want heading those decisions. To deny same-sex marriage is to deny someone the ability to dictate mandates of contract over activities of their daily lives. Most certainly an infringement upon their right to contract.

    That is reality, no matter how many deflection arguments you want to make or dismissive statements you want to make or how badly you'd like to call my argument "void" because you have the possibility of removing something; that's reality. We deal with reality, not delusions of grandeur. It is possible to revolt against the government and overthrow it, but that doesn't mean we sit back and watch the government spiral out of control till the point at which we must revolt. Just because there is a probability outcome doesn't mean that we must ignore the current reality, this is the breakdown of your argument and why your base assumptions are flat out wrong. There is a possibility of the marriage license being abolished, but current reality is that the marriage license exists and just because there is a possibility of X happening doesn't excuse treason and tyranny over the rights of others in the current reality. If you want to remove the marriage license, I'll be there supporting it. But until that time we must deal with current reality of the marriage license. Marriage currently is controlled by the State, and because of that it cannot enforce religious mandate; it must act by the rights and liberties of the People. As such, my original statement in its full remains valid. While the marriage license exists, there is no logical argument against same-sex marriage. Truth and measured reality. Deal with it.
    Well put!

    I will agree to disagree on the same grounds as before...

    Never say never.

    Forgive the simplistic answer.


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  5. #165
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I think you need to think this through a little bit more. Married are more likely to pay property taxes capital gains taxes and much more. They are more likey to have serious concerns in regards to investment.
    Not at all, there is method to my madness.

    It would make people think twice about getting married. The seriousness of the commitment mite actually take hold. People would not just get married on a whim.


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  6. #166
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I've just grown so tired of quoting Loving, Skinner and others, which conclusivly prove you wrong, that I no longer take any of your argments seriously.
    I grow tired of useless philosophy thrown at the execution of contract and will. I will no longer take any of your arguments seriously.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  7. #167
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I grow tired of useless philosophy thrown at the execution of contract and will. I will no longer take any of your arguments seriously.
    Holy crap we agree on something

  8. #168
    Advisor Burning Giraffe's Avatar
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Holy crap we agree on something
    He has a point Jerry. Philosophy is, as you know, dependent upon the Semantics and Premises upon which an argument is based. People get tired of dealing with the myriad premises they reject, as they are often told they are missing the point of the conclusion. Most of us don't agree upon the antecedents. There is no great surprise that we disagree on the conclusions. No?
    There is nothing more dangerous to the liberty of Man than a Government or a Religion seizing upon the strings of an overdeveloped herd instinct amongst the people.

  9. #169
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Giraffe View Post
    He has a point Jerry. Philosophy is, as you know, dependent upon the Semantics and Premises upon which an argument is based. People get tired of dealing with the myriad premises they reject, as they are often told they are missing the point of the conclusion. Most of us don't agree upon the antecedents. There is no great surprise that we disagree on the conclusions. No?
    No suprise at all, just don't assume that any part of this has to do with religion.

    She called SCOTUS precident "usless philociphy", she did not say that about a religion.

    At this point in the thread pro-gm has rejected SCOTUS and the law in toto, so what credability does gay marriage have left?
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-14-09 at 11:50 AM.

  10. #170
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    Re: If you oppose same-sex marriage, you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No suprise at all, just assume that any part of this has to do with religion.

    She called SCOTUS precident "usless philociphy", she did not say that about a religion.
    Even President Jefferson warned of the dangers of "precedent". Just because one set of Supreme Court Justices set a precedent as "X" doesn't mean that the next ought not assume "Y". We must always be a bit weary of the choices of our ancestors. We have not be dealt a perfect world by any means.
    There is nothing more dangerous to the liberty of Man than a Government or a Religion seizing upon the strings of an overdeveloped herd instinct amongst the people.

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