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Are some words inherently offensive or is context important?

Are some words inherently offensive?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 30.8%
  • No

    Votes: 18 69.2%

  • Total voters
    26
I agree that words most definitely CAN cause harm; I just don't believe any word is universally and unequivically "offensive". I think certain words can be "offensive" to certain people, I think words that are generally never "offensive" can become such in the right context, and I think a large part of a word being able to cause harm is weakness and over sensitivity on the part of the person that is being harmed

So the person being harmed is at fault (weakness, over sensitive) - and the one doing the harming is what? You focus on the "failings" of the person being harmed, but no mention of the conduct of the harmer? Why is that?

It is not a trifle to be on the end of harming words. And rather than call these people weak and over sensitive, perhaps take a deeper look at the character of those who harm others with derogatory / vilifying words. What are THEY? Insensitive clods, methinks.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Note: There are words being thrown around on this thread that would probably earn folks points if used on other threads. However in the context of this discussion the use of the words is important to the discussion. Make sense? But, if one poster calls another poster any of these words -in this discussion - they're immediately thread banned. I think that's a fair compromise for those folks who do find the words inherently offensive and don't think they have any place on the discussion board whatsoever. If seeing the words even in the context of this discussion offends you then I suggest you avoid this thread altogether.
 
Words can definitely cause harm. For those who disagree, let me ask a question: Is there anything you are insecure or sensitive about? Does it hurt when someone finds that hot button, and uses words to insult you in relation to it? I'd argue most everyone has at least one of these..at least, no one I've known well didn't. Everyone has private shames and vulnerabilities.

http://christopherleemay.com/2009/04/20/ways-words-wound-heart/

The gist of this article:



I believe it's very short-sighted to claim words can't cause harm. It's simply untrue, unless you're a cyborg.

Of course words can cause harm, but the context is extremely important. Obviously someone who decides to tell what they consider a harmless racist jokes to their friends and it offends people they are worthy of criticism because they obviously didn't stop to consider who their joke would offend. If a person calls another person a racist term meant in a derogatory way they are most definitely worthy of criticism. A person having a discussion with others about racial issues who uses the word as a point of reference isn't a racist and isn't deserving of criticism because they aren't using the word in an offensive manner. I don't believe that any word is inherently offensive regardless of the context. To me, that is incredibly ignorant.
 
I think the word "Hitler" carries all the context one needs.

But no, the words "Heil Hitler" do not provoke a reaction by themselves. I immediately think "Nazi" but that is because Hitler was the leader of the Nazi party. That's the only reaction I have, though.

Fair enough. Those words evoke images in my head and empathy towards those who suffered so horrendously during that time, but I'll concede that could just be me.
 
Of course words can cause harm, but the context is extremely important. Obviously someone who decides to tell what they consider a harmless racist jokes to their friends and it offends people they are worthy of criticism because they obviously didn't stop to consider who their joke would offend. If a person calls another person a racist term meant in a derogatory way they are most definitely worthy of criticism. A person having a discussion with others about racial issues who uses the word as a point of reference isn't a racist and isn't deserving of criticism because they aren't using the word in an offensive manner. I don't believe that any word is inherently offensive regardless of the context. To me, that is incredibly ignorant.

And I think some words fall outside of the boundaries of context, rare, though that may be, nevertheless, most people are aware of which ones fit that category, whether they say so or not.
 
And I think some words fall outside of the boundaries of context, rare, though that may be, nevertheless, most people are aware of which ones fit that category, whether they say so or not.

So just to be clear on your position here, would you think someone who uses the term only as a point of reference is as racist or as bad as a person who uses the term against someone in a derogatory manner or as an insensitive joke?
 
Fair enough. Those words evoke images in my head and empathy towards those who suffered so horrendously during that time, but I'll concede that could just be me.

Well now I looked at just those two words when you offered them. If you said "holocaust", my reaction would have been much stronger. When I hear "Hitler", empathy is not what comes to mind for me.
 
See, this is exactly what I disagree with. What are we, made out of metal?

We're human. We ALL have weak points.

Where'd I deny that?

I think your position completely ignores the fact that people come from diverse backgrounds, and have varying levels of pain inflicted on them by others and society throughout their lives.

Not at all, indeed, the fact you need to site "diverse backgrounds" and "varying levels of pain" shows you my point.

Lets take the word that started this all off.

Nigger

For the N-word to be universally "offensive" every person ever that hears it would either have to be:

1) offended

or

2) a racist

That's what would be required for it to be "universally" offensive. This would have to mean that every black person that has ever called another black person the n-word would have to be either be offended by their own statement OR be a racist. Every child that ever uttered it not fully understanding the history of it would have to be either offended by it or a racist. This is the issue with "universal" truths of words.

I never discounted to INDIVIDUALS that a word can not be "universally" offensive. Aaron states that the n-word is universally offensive to him in any and every situation it could ever be used. So be it, that's free to him. However even then, its based on the context that the word bothers him SO GREATLY, that the history of it so pains him, and his own views and opinions of people using it is so negative, that it becomes offensive to him. THAT is his context.

However, an ENTIRELY different black person could come upon someone going "Did you hear that South Park Episode where Stan's dad said [the n word] on Wheel of Fortune" and it not bother him at all. That could not be POSSIBLE if the word was UNIVERSALLY and automatically "offensive".

It may well be true that there are few things that hurt your feelings (though I believe very few are truly that bulletproof), but a little sensitivity towards others who may not be as well equipped through no fault of their own (ie, childhood abuse, persecution, etc) shouldn't be such a difficult thing to muster. Instead, you pile on the additional label of "weak" or "oversensitive".

Nope, I've had my feelings hurt by words plenty of times. When I was younger, it was generally teasing that could do it to me. These days its more to do with words of disapproval or disappointment that hurt me more. "You let me down" could do more pain to me than "shorty" or "ragozzi" (popular cheap italian resturant that sounds akin to my last name) would now.

Sorry, I'm not going to play your PC game. I'm not going to cry and get all sad and censor myself or find the nice polite way to say things simply because some people may not like the connotation if saying it plainly explains it better. To be offended is ENTIRELY dependent on ones self. Someone can come up to me and say "You are a mother ****ing honkey that likes to suck ****" and at that point I either get offended or I laugh it and the person off as either joking or insignificant.

The human condition is weakness. No one is a perfect being. No one is a cyborg. Everyone feels pain. To be weak, to feel pain, is to be human. I strive to control my emotions, but I would NEVER give them away completely simply to never have them control me.

In regards to oversensitive, that's the other extent of it. I fully believe at times people are in no way shape or form ACTUALLY offended by something but are simply seeking attention, drama, or to make a scene and thus purposefully act over sensitive to things in order to meet those aims.

It seems to me that your position is just a rationale for being insensitive and not feeling guilty about it.

Not at all. Indeed, generally in real life I am an extremely sensitive person. I generally am non-confrontational and prefer in general to try and please people when I'm in a general social setting. If things get heated (competition, spirited debate, etc) this can change, but in a general casual setting that's typically my normal attitude.

My position is a rationale that people are FAR to sensitive these days to what people say and many people are simply looking to be offended for no other reason than for attention.

Do the words "Heil Hitler" provoke any reaction in you at all? No context, but the words represent something nonetheless.

You can't really say words without context though. If someone just made a post that said "Heil Hitler" and that was it...no neo-nazi seeming icon or screen name, no past history of it...I'd probably roll my eyes, think the guys a bit of an idiot, and move on. It wouldn't offend me, it wouldn't make me angry, I'd probably laugh it off.

If someone said "And then the guy put his arm up like he was about to go 'Heil Hitler' trying to signal for the basektball and right then it got passed to him, he missed it, and it hit him in the face" it wouldn't even pass through my mind that it was in any way, shape, or form offensive.

if someone said "Black people and Jews are the devil, we must exterminate them all, Heil Hitler!" then I'd probably think they're neo-nazi sons of bitches, a rather worthless human being, and if not for the laws of this land I'd probably like to punch them in the face.

As I said, words are not universally and automatically offensive, it is entirely the context and entirely up to how the person hearing it feels about it.
 
Considering that everyone's experiences, reactions to things and views on what is or isn't offensive are subjective and differ from person to person, doesn't that kind of underline the importance of context and why no word can be inherently offensive?
 
So just to be clear on your position here, would you think someone who uses the term only as a point of reference is as racist or as bad as a person who uses the term against someone in a derogatory manner or as an insensitive joke?

Absolutely. Insensitivity cannot be used as an excuse for racism or bigotry.
If someone is offended by something that you've said, why is the onus on that person to accommodate you? That, in my mind, is asinine in the extreme.
 
Considering that everyone's experiences, reactions to things and views on what is or isn't offensive are subjective and differ from person to person, doesn't that kind of underline the importance of context and why no word can be inherently offensive?

Exactly. Take the word "porch monkey". I had never ever heard that word used in a racial context my whole life until I heard it said so in "Clerks 2". I was like...what?!? Porch monkey? Really?

My grandma and my parents and everyone used to call kids "porch monkeys". It's like calling them rugrats. But apparently it's racist to some people. I called the neighbor's kid a porch monkey a while ago and his mom was like "what did you just call my kid?" She asked with a giggle but it was clear she thought of it as a racist term. When I explained that where I am from, it's not racist...it's just a jest that means unruly child, she giggled and said "I like that. It fits."

So in light of that, was porch monkey ever a racist term? Is it a racist term sometimes? Is it no longer a racist term between my neighbor and myself? :confused:
 
Absolutely. Insensitivity cannot be used as an excuse for racism or bigotry.

How is it insensitivity when it is just being used as a reference point? Earlier you copied and pasted something from wikipedia including tons of terms that could be considered offensive. Why was that okay? I realize you just copied and pasted them, but it doesn't change that you put them out there in the same way that you would if you had typed them.

If someone is offended by something that you've said, why is the onus on that person to accommodate you? That, in my mind, is asinine in the extreme.

I'm sorry, but I just think it's absurd for someone to be offended by me using that term when it is only being used as a reference point and not as a derogatory or insulting term. As I said earlier, we all differ in what we believe and what we consider offensive, am I supposed to be careful not to say some words (even in a non-derogatory context) in case they may offend some people?

What about when African Americans use the term in a non-derogatory sense? Are they being racist as well?

I agree that people shouldn't use the term carelessly in case they offend someone and that would fall under the umbrella of jokes or whatever. But to use it as a reference point? I'm sorry, but that's just silly to me.
 
Absolutely. Insensitivity cannot be used as an excuse for racism or bigotry.
If someone is offended by something that you've said, why is the onus on that person to accommodate you? That, in my mind, is asinine in the extreme.

Some people will go out of their way to be offended by anything and everything they can, though. Why is the onus on society to protect their overly tender sensibilities?
 
So the person being harmed is at fault (weakness, over sensitive) - and the one doing the harming is what? You focus on the "failings" of the person being harmed, but no mention of the conduct of the harmer? Why is that?

It is not a trifle to be on the end of harming words. And rather than call these people weak and over sensitive, perhaps take a deeper look at the character of those who harm others with derogatory / vilifying words. What are THEY? Insensitive clods, methinks.

Not at all. Did I say there was no FAULT on the person stating the things, or that they're a perfect person? I only said that generally one can only be offended due to weakness (IE, the inability to not let someone elses words make you feel worse) or oversensitivity.

Lets say someone stranger calls me a son of a bitch after bumping into me.

That person is being rude and offensive. He is at fault for being rude and offensive.

Even if I let it wash over me, roll my eyes at the guy, and ignore his comment, he is still being rude and offensive.

If I take great offense to it, if I go "How DARE this guy I have absolutely no connection with and have no reason to give a damn what they think call ME a son of a bitch! That hurts my feelings and now I think less of myself and am getting ANGRY" then I am at fault for being so out of control of my emotions to let a stranger who has zero influence to me have such control over me as to make me angry and feel bad. HE is still at fault for being rude and offensive, but I only have me to blame for being OFFENDED or UPSET by it.

There are a few legitimate areas where I'd say this changes a bit. If someone personally went through some kind of huge tramatic event that has actually caused mental issues and words help trigger it, then it falls more on the person that caused these tramatic events that set such a situation up than the person themselves. Technically, them being offended or upset is still due to a "weakness", but to take that as an insult is like saying that a person paralyzed from the waist down can't get something off the 5th shelf because his bodies to weak to do it is also insulting.

Blame and Cause are two differnet things. We live in such a PC society these days that some people can't understand that, especially when talking about people.
 
I call people "honkies" all the time. Does it get the same treatment as "always offensive"?

Example 1: "Damn, did you hear that joke that Tucker told? That honkey cracks me up."

Is that offensive?

Example 2: "Tucker Case is a vile honkey and I want to eat his children"

Is that offensive?
 
Context is always important with language. Even racial slurs aside, context and environment will always matter. A person with brains and class understands how to modify their language depending on the context of their environment. For example I grew up in a home with brothers and a family that is loud and prone to cursing. My mother doesn't bat an eye when bad words are dropped. My mother in law however would fall down dead if I freely cursed around her. I wouldn't be able to work as a volunteer up at the school if I were too stupid to curb my language in that environment. I don't talk to my mother in law the same way I talk to my friends out of respect for my knowledge that certain things offend her.

When it comes to racial slurs like the N word and others I don't think classy folks use them, white or black. I think black youth commonly throw the word around much in the same way a girlfriend might exclaim, "You slut," when hearing another girlfriend tell of a wild night. It's a totally different context than if some non-friend just ups and calls someone a slut.

There's really no context in which a white person should ever use the N word. Or wetback - which is actually the racial slur I've heard most commonly over the past few years. Or any other racial slur. Unless, they are joking around with friends who enjoy joking around that way for whatever reason and those folks ought to be smart enough to alter the language for environments where it's obvious that language is gonna ruffle feathers.

All that said, many words like "monkey" are not racist and I don't think racial groups should start domineering the vocabulary and going out of their way to search with a fine tooth comb for racism in the most benign of statements.
 
Context is always important with language. Even racial slurs aside, context and environment will always matter. A person with brains and class understands how to modify their language depending on the context of their environment. For example I grew up in a home with brothers and a family that is loud and prone to cursing. My mother doesn't bat an eye when bad words are dropped. My mother in law however would fall down dead if I freely cursed around her. I wouldn't be able to work as a volunteer up at the school if I were too stupid to curb my language in that environment. I don't talk to my mother in law the same way I talk to my friends out of respect for my knowledge that certain things offend her.

When it comes to racial slurs like the N word and others I don't think classy folks use them, white or black. I think black youth commonly throw the word around much in the same way a girlfriend might exclaim, "You slut," when hearing another girlfriend tell of a wild night. It's a totally different context than if some non-friend just ups and calls someone a slut.

There's really no context in which a white person should ever use the N word. Or wetback - which is actually the racial slur I've heard most commonly over the past few years. Or any other racial slur. Unless, they are joking around with friends who enjoy joking around that way for whatever reason and those folks ought to be smart enough to alter the language for environments where it's obvious that language is gonna ruffle feathers.

All that said, many words like "monkey" are not racist and I don't think racial groups should start domineering the vocabulary and going out of their way to search with a fine tooth comb for racism in the most benign of statements.

Very brilliantly put!
 
I call people "honkies" all the time. Does it get the same treatment as "always offensive"?

Example 1: "Damn, did you hear that joke that Tucker told? That honkey cracks me up."

Is that offensive?

Example 2: "Tucker Case is a vile honkey and I want to eat his children"

Is that offensive?

Again context is everything. It's one thing for Mind of Mencia to be joking about his wetback family whom he loves and a whole other thing for some irate white guy to grumble about the bunch of wetbacks that moved in next door.
 
When I read this, what I hear is that the word under discussion is not inherently offensive to you. Are you making the argument that it couldn't possibly be inherently offensive to someone?

An analogy: A young boy has been beaten most of his young life by his father. His father often used the phrase "be tough!" while beating him, as his twisted justification for his abuse.

How do you suppose the boy, now grown to a man, would react to that phrase when he heard it, even out of context? Those words are now a trigger for him reliving a very painful experience in his mind.

I imagine this is similiar to how a black man hears the word under discussion. It's not rational, it's an automatic negative reaction and it behooves anyone with a shred of decency and sensitivity to consider avoiding it and other such words, especially when requested.

What's ignorant about that? It's actually much more thoughtful than the default position so many here seem to take "words aren't inherently harmful, they require context". Context may be significant, but it's not required.

Of course it could be inherently offensive to someone. I personally don't understand that obviously because I haven't had the same experiences that person has had. Obviously if someone did find the word inherently offensive I wouldn't use the term around them even in a referencing context because it would only serve to ruffle feathers and that's pointless.

As talloulou very brilliantly stated above, both context and environment are important. I'm not out to offend people so I would definitely censor myself in front of someone that I know would get offended by it. However, I'm not going to always censor myself for fear that someone may get offended regardless of the context because I think that's silly. I stand by my belief that no word is inherently offensive. From what I've seen of aaron's posts he believes that some terms are inherently offensive on a universal level. That I don't agree with at all
 
Considering that everyone's experiences, reactions to things and views on what is or isn't offensive are subjective and differ from person to person, doesn't that kind of underline the importance of context and why no word can be inherently offensive?

Perhaps to put it slightly differently, I wonder why more people aren't offended by certain words. Is it perhaps, in part, because some people (who aren't offended) do not fall under the radar / fall into the categories of people that have some of the "worst" kind of "words" thrown at / attributed to them?
 
Again context is everything. It's one thing for Mind of Mencia to be joking about his wetback family whom he loves and a whole other thing for some irate white guy to grumble about the bunch of wetbacks that moved in next door.

But they are both similar in one respect. Neither are funny. :mrgreen:
 
As I said, words are not universally and automatically offensive, it is entirely the context and entirely up to how the person hearing it feels about it.

Great post. I agree, and concede I overlooked the "universal" aspect.

Funny, I think people are too needlessly callous in our culture, but that really is entirely just an opinion. Thanks for the thorough reply.
 
Perhaps to put it slightly differently, I wonder why more people aren't offended by certain words. Is it perhaps, in part, because some people (who aren't offended) do not fall under the radar / fall into the categories of people that have some of the "worst" kind of "words" thrown at / attributed to them?

I dunno. I think it has a lot more to do with how overly sensitive some people are and how much of their own value depends on what others think of them. I hear the word "fag" tossed about all the time and it never really bothers me at all when I hear it used generally. It takes someone actually getting my face and calling me a "fag" pointedly for me to get offended and even then, it's not offense over the word but offense over how the other person is acting.

I also notice that offense is taken more readily in the course of political debate because liberals seem to think that punctuating an argument with a cry of "you're a racist" is supposed to shut debate down. I think they are finding that no one is really listening to that much anymore because it has been played out.
 
Perhaps to put it slightly differently, I wonder why more people aren't offended by certain words. Is it perhaps, in part, because some people (who aren't offended) do not fall under the radar / fall into the categories of people that have some of the "worst" kind of "words" thrown at / attributed to them?

Context, culture, an environment significantly alter ones sensitivity. If you're young and you hang with a group of friends who commonly and jokingly call each other all manner of names probably you'll pick up the habit as well and have no sensitivity to the words within that environment. However if you've never heard your father ever call your mother the names you and your friends constantly toss out at each other then the day he does it your mouth is gonna fall to the floor! The words loose or gain weight depending on the context and the environment.

Let's say you're a teenage guy and your friends constantly mock each other during sporting events by saying crap like, "You run like a little bitch. " Now let's say a new kid moves in the neighborhood and his friends never did that. The first time he hears it or has it tossed his way he's gonna be more offended than he will be later on when he's so use to it he has no sensitivity to it whatsoever.

I think that's why young black kids can use the N word frequently with each other in a jocular manner. They desensitize each other to it.

However they are NOT desensitized to some white guy coming along and using it. So when that happens the reaction would be changed dramatically.
 
How is it insensitivity when it is just being used as a reference point? Earlier you copied and pasted something from wikipedia including tons of terms that could be considered offensive. Why was that okay? I realize you just copied and pasted them, but it doesn't change that you put them out there in the same way that you would if you had typed them.



I'm sorry, but I just think it's absurd for someone to be offended by me using that term when it is only being used as a reference point and not as a derogatory or insulting term. As I said earlier, we all differ in what we believe and what we consider offensive, am I supposed to be careful not to say some words (even in a non-derogatory context) in case they may offend some people?

What about when African Americans use the term in a non-derogatory sense? Are they being racist as well?

I agree that people shouldn't use the term carelessly in case they offend someone and that would fall under the umbrella of jokes or whatever. But to use it as a reference point? I'm sorry, but that's just silly to me.

If the general consensus is "anything goes", and I employ it, totally disregarding my position, but being mindful of why I'm doing it (to make a point, hyperbole, to be clear), the hypocrisy doesn't stem from me. I'm clear. Are others clear why others choose to continue to use terms and words which some find offensive?
What other explanation could there be but arrogance and continuance of "white privilege"?
How ridiculous to suggest that a term which has no redeeming quality be used as an example of what? If one has used that word all ones' life and cannot see the fuss, then what are we talking about? Some would rather cling to the past, and its' sordidness, and all the accompanying trappings, instead of respecting other human beings, when the terms are in "black and white", as to what is offensive and what is not. Why tread in "gray areas"?
Again, "white privilege" seems to be the answer, which is a function of "upbringing" or the lack thereof.
I never use certain words...must I suffer them because others use them?
Evidently, I must, in certain circles. Sooner or later, I may come to the conclusion that I must remove myself from a toxic environment...but it will be at my choosing, not of anyone else's. My main reason for leaving Political Forums was being attacked for pointing out racism and homophobia, in similar situations. Seems the same types are germane to each and every forum.
Should I cower and run...or do I stand and fight against blatant racism and homophobia from last persons who should be racist and homophobic.... other gay people? I'm here, for the time being. Get into some acceptance about it.
And bring your "A" game. It's obvious histrionics aren't going to cut it.
 
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