• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

If someone in your Family

Saboteur said:
If someone in your family admitted to torturing another human being or animal, would you forgive them?

Can't find the Poll controlls.

Answer yes or no or not at all.

Assuming you hold yourself responsible for your emotions and the way you feel about things as opposed to blaming others for your feelings.
Click to expand...

If I discovered someone in my family had tortured another person or animal, I would drag them to the police station and dump them outside. I would never forgive them.
 
Saboteur said:
If someone in your family admitted to torturing another human being or animal, would you forgive them?

Can't find the Poll controlls.

Answer yes or no or not at all.

Assuming you hold yourself responsible for your emotions and the way you feel about things as opposed to blaming others for your feelings.
Click to expand...


the only one that has the potential to do something like that in my family is me, and no, I'm never going to forgive myself if I ever do that!! :D
 
Perham said:
the only one that has the potential to do something like that in my family is me, and no, I'm never going to forgive myself if I ever do that!! :D
Click to expand...
those hats your brother and you had on to go fishing tortured me
 
Makedde said:
If I discovered someone in my family had tortured another person or animal, I would drag them to the police station and dump them outside. I would never forgive them.
Click to expand...



What if the reason they did was to rescue a sister, daughter, from a gang of murdering rapists?
 
Saboteur said:
I don't know, how did "The Last House On The Left" movie justifiy it?
Click to expand...




Using the "24 scenario" as an excuse to answer the tough questions, indicates to me, you all are not as "righteous" as you all claim.


Why won't you answer the question?
 
Blackdog said:
This has little to do with anything I said, and sounds more like a PETA rant.

Please read what I said and understand instead of just making a knee jerk reaction based on limited perception of what I said.
Click to expand...

I read what you said and don't disagree with your point of view on the difference between animals and humans. I was just addressing your wonder at how I put humans and animals on the same boat.

Though, it doesn't seem that you understood what I said and just wrote it off like a "PETA rant". I'm not sure which one of us is really coming off as "knee jerk".
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Using the "24 scenario" as an excuse to answer the tough questions, indicates to me, you all are not as "righteous" as you all claim.


Why won't you answer the question?
Click to expand...

Um you're the one who added a scenario here. I didn't put one here on purpose, justification does not change the fact that someone in your family had the mental will power to slowly destroy another living being that had no way to defend itself. To me that will power seems more than a little sociopathic, you know, like serial killers are?

Honestly, if there was a situation where I was asked to torture someone and it was 'morally justified by popular vote', I don't think I actually have it in me to do it. No matter what the circumstance. I killed a pigeon with a BB gun once. I felt terrible for weeks after that... for a freaking pigeon!
 
Perham said:
the only one that has the potential to do something like that in my family is me, and no, I'm never going to forgive myself if I ever do that!! :D
Click to expand...

Though I sense that you are being sarcastic, you actually have a point. Even the most battle hardend soliders have feelings of guilt for killing the enemy.
 
Saboteur said:
Um you're the one who added a scenario here. I didn't put one here on purpose, justification does not change the fact that someone in your family had the mental will power to slowly destroy another living being that had no way to defend itself. To me that will power seems more than a little sociopathic, you know, like serial killers are?
Click to expand...


Sociopathic means that you have no empathy. Torturing someone to save a family member does not mean you feel bad for doing what must be done.

There is a stark difference.

Honestly, if there was a situation where I was asked to torture someone and it was 'morally justified by popular vote', I don't think I actually have it in me to do it. No matter what the circumstance. I killed a pigeon with a BB gun once. I felt terrible for weeks after that... for a freaking pigeon!
Click to expand...



That's too bad. For the sake of a family member in trouble, I sure hope I do.
 
Saboteur said:
Though I sense that you are being sarcastic, you actually have a point. Even the most battle hardend soliders have feelings of guilt for killing the enemy.
Click to expand...
With age it get worse, you find you cannot recognise them as an enemy.
 
an animal, no, that is sick.....
a human, depends.....
if the human was part of a team of kidnappers who had one of my family hidden somewhere, I would get the truth out of him one way or another...

Not saying I would enjoy it, but I would do it...
 
Saboteur said:
I read what you said and don't disagree with your point of view on the difference between animals and humans. I was just addressing your wonder at how I put humans and animals on the same boat.
Click to expand...

I understand that. It still comes off like a PETA rant.

Saboteur said:
Though, it doesn't seem that you understood what I said and just wrote it off like a "PETA rant". I'm not sure which one of us is really coming off as "knee jerk".
Click to expand...

I understood what you said and it still comes of as a PETA rant. I agree torture is wrong, period, but you seem to think torturing an animal is somehow worse than humans?

"But human or animal, torture is inhumane and in my opinion even more cruel when animals are the victims since they have no idea why they're are being harmed in such a way." - Saboteur

If that is not something a PETA member would say, I don't know what is.

I am also a member of PETA: People eating tasty animals. ;)
 
UtahBill said:
an animal, no, that is sick.....
a human, depends.....
if the human was part of a team of kidnappers who had one of my family hidden somewhere, I would get the truth out of him one way or another...

Not saying I would enjoy it, but I would do it...
Click to expand...

If you can't commit to it I don't think you'll get much out of it. How about this question;

If torture is such an effective way to get information would you just spill the beans before even getting touched or would you tough it out even though you know you'll eventually break?
 
A human wouldn't know why they are being harmed in such a way if the person was torturing them in order to get their jollies.
 
Blackdog said:
I understand that. It still comes off like a PETA rant.



I understood what you said and it still comes of as a PETA rant. I agree torture is wrong, period, but you seem to think torturing an animal is somehow worse than humans?

"But human or animal, torture is inhumane and in my opinion even more cruel when animals are the victims since they have no idea why they're are being harmed in such a way." - Saboteur

If that is not something a PETA member would say, I don't know what is.

I am also a member of PETA: People eating tasty animals. ;)
Click to expand...

Well like you said yourself, animals are less than humans, lack the ability to reason, and act on instinct. So to use torture to punish an animal for doing what comes naturally to it, in my opinion is more wrong than torturing a human for a reason. But that's just me. Would you like to point out where I said you should have the same opinion?

Also, I eat meat and love it. Though I don't go bragging about how I like my steak rare or feel like a powerfull benevolent human that kills and eats animals for pleasure. Instead, I eat because I have too in order to stay alive. Just like an animal does, huh funny, gee :roll:
 
Tucker Case said:
A human wouldn't know why they are being harmed in such a way if the person was torturing them in order to get their jollies.
Click to expand...

That is true, though I think a person in the clutches of a sadistic seriel killer would figure out their tormentor was sick pretty quickly. I mean we are benevolent beings deserving of not really dying when our body is damaged or too old to keep going right?
 
Saboteur said:
Well like you said yourself, animals are less than humans, lack the ability to reason, and act on instinct. So to use torture to punish an animal for doing what comes naturally to it, in my opinion is more wrong than torturing a human for a reason. But that's just me. Would you like to point out where I said you should have the same opinion?
Click to expand...

#1 Who said anything about using torture to punish anything or anyone for any reason at all. Certainly was not me.

#2 Excuse me for pointing out that it sounded like a PETA line. Next time I will just lie to you to spare your feelings.

Saboteur said:
Also, I eat meat and love it. Though I don't go bragging about how I like my steak rare or feel like a powerfull benevolent human that kills and eats animals for pleasure. Instead, I eat because I have too in order to stay alive. Just like an animal does, huh funny, gee :roll:
Click to expand...

Man lighten up. :doh
 
Saboteur said:
If you can't commit to it I don't think you'll get much out of it. How about this question;

If torture is such an effective way to get information would you just spill the beans before even getting touched or would you tough it out even though you know you'll eventually break?
Click to expand...

I once held a top secret crypto clearance, and even then knew nothing worth torturing me for. I didn't have access to the codes/cards, just had the clearance so I could repair them....so I would tell them anything and everything, since it would have no value to them at all.

BTW, at one of my duty stations, that question was posed to a fellow sailor by a junior officer, and he said he would probably spill his guts, and the officer wrote him up. A senior officer stopped the process, and the junior officer got reprimanded.....
 
Last edited:
Saboteur said:
That is true, though I think a person in the clutches of a sadistic seriel killer would figure out their tormentor was sick pretty quickly.
Click to expand...

So? Would that give them insight as to why they are being tortured, or would it just raise the "why me" question?

And how would that be less cruel than torturing animals?
 
UtahBill said:
I once held a top secret crypto clearance, and even then knew nothing worth torturing me for. I didn't have access to the codes/cards, just had the clearance so I could repair them....so I would tell them anything and everything, since it would have no value to them at all.

BTW, at one of my duty stations, that question was posed to a fellow sailor by a junior officer, and he said he would probably spill his guts, and the officer wrote him up. A senior officer stopped the process, and the junior officer got reprimanded.....
Click to expand...

So then what would you think if they proceeded to torture you because they believed you knew more?

Would you make something up?
 
Saboteur said:
So then what would you think if they proceeded to torture you because they believed you knew more?

Would you make something up?
Click to expand...

Why do you keep changing the goal posts? Fishing for an answer you want?

PS The reason I ask is because his answer (at least to me) seems pretty obvious.
 
Last edited:
Tucker Case said:
So? Would that give them insight as to why they are being tortured, or would it just raise the "why me" question?

And how would that be less cruel than torturing animals?
Click to expand...

At least the victim has the opportunity to beg or bargan. I know that it wouldn't work and perhaps even highten the satifaction of the torturer but an animal can only scream.

I realize we are talking about several different kinds of torture and as many mind sets that it would take for someone to commit the act. This is why I tried to avoid the '24 scenario' people have been throwing around lately in the OP. I figure if Ethreal can get away with the black and white hypothesis and explain it that way 4 pages later I can do it too. Or is that a double standard I can't bypass?
 
Saboteur said:
I figure if Ethreal can get away with the black and white hypothesis and explain it that way 4 pages later I can do it too. Or is that a double standard I can't bypass?
Click to expand...

He did not get away with anything, he was challenged quite a few times.
 
Saboteur said:
So then what would you think if they proceeded to torture you because they believed you knew more?

Would you make something up?
Click to expand...

most likely,,,,but an interrrogator probably wouldn't understand the technology, and would have to have someone on hand that does, and surely THAT person would know that the ability to repair something has little to do with the technology involved to create it. Techs rarely get tortured.
Had a college history classmate who was on the Pueblo when the NK captured it.
He said that even NK officers are woefully ignorant of the outside world, and you could tell them lies, but they must be believeable lies. Once they caught you lying, they beat you up even more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom