View Poll Results: How do you feel about America's history?

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  • Overall, I have positive feelings regarding our past

    20 76.92%
  • Overall, I have negative feelings regarding our past

    6 23.08%
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Thread: Regarding America's past

  1. #11
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    Re: Regarding America's past

    You're going to have to be more vague than that; there's definitely plenty of events and issues in American history to be positive about, but there are also definitely plenty to be negative about. You're question is way too vague; it's like asking "what's your opinion of history?" It's pretty much unanswerable.

  2. #12
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    Re: Regarding America's past

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    You're going to have to be more vague than that; there's definitely plenty of events and issues in American history to be positive about, but there are also definitely plenty to be negative about. You're question is way too vague; it's like asking "what's your opinion of history?" It's pretty much unanswerable.
    Thats why the options are "overall". It does take into account that you are going to have both positive and negative feelings for specific instances. What the question is asking, is when you weigh the positive against the negative, where does your overall opinion stand on the scale.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Regarding America's past

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Tucker, your label says "very liberal", did you notice that? I'm fairly sure it said something else last week.

    You're not going to change your gender too are you?
    Did you notice the elephants under my name?

    Last month I was "very conservative" with donkeys.

    Basically, there are odd little things I do to amuse myself.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 05-07-09 at 08:03 AM.

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    Re: Regarding America's past

    American history is always portrayed as proud and victorious.

    What they always do, the media, is overshadow historical events that occured concurrently, promoting education in the civil war, when concurrently around the same period, the Taiping Rebellion in Qing China had occured, the latter caused the deaths of 10s of millions through war and disease, and caused the Qing Government to destabilise so much that in 50 years, there would be a revolution. Ask an average American, what major event happened in the 1860s, they'll say the Civil War, but the Civil war isn't anything in comparison to the Taiping Rebellion if we were to talk about a "major event".

  5. #15
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    Re: Regarding America's past

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Overall, I'd have to say negative. I'll go into more detail when I have time, I gotta run ATM though.
    Going into more detail now:


    I picked "overall negative" based on the way that I weigh the negatives and positives. The biggest negatives in US history outweigh all the positives in my eyes because of their "atrocity" factor. The two biggest, IMO, are the genocide of the native population and slavery.

    Slavery was "rectified" in that it was made illegal, but that isn't a positive by my way of viewing things so much as it is a "return to neutral". Nothing can be done to erase the genocide. There were other things that happened in our history as well that I feel overshadow the "good". Japanese internment camps, Jim Crow, the a-bombs, the Tuskeegee incident etc.

    The reason why these things overshadow the positives is that our positive history is primarily with ideas specifically in the realms of philosophy, economics, science, politics etc, while our negative things all deal with human beings being murdered, maimed, downtrodden, subjugated, etc.

    In my view of the world, these negatives will always surpass those positives because human beings, individuals, matter more to me than concepts or material things.

    Now, since the question that was asked refers to opinions about our past, I have to lean towards the side of negative overall because of what was affected by the positives and negatives.

    Now, if the question was "How do you feel about the US's over all historical influence in the world: positive or negative" I would say that since concepts, inventions, and such have more overall positive influence globally, that I have a positive view overall of the US's historical influence on the world.

    But since it was just "past" in general, I took all factors into account, including my own system of weighing positives and negatives. Obviously actions directly taken against people, be they positive or negative, have the highest weight in my personal views. We've got more negative than positive on that front by a lot. That skews my view towards the negative.

  6. #16
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    Re: Regarding America's past

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Did you notice the elephants under my name?

    Last month I was "very conservative" with donkeys.

    Basically, there are odd little things I do to amuse myself.
    Self amuse? you need to get out more, get some friends
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  7. #17
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    Re: Regarding America's past

    Thats why the options are "overall". It does take into account that you are going to have both positive and negative feelings for specific instances. What the question is asking, is when you weigh the positive against the negative, where does your overall opinion stand on the scale.
    I understand what the question is, which is what my response was directed at. Like I said in my previous post, it's like asking "Overall, what is your opinion of history?" It makes no sense because it's so vague that it's meaningless. Am I supposed to compare the rise of Fascism in Europe and the development of workers' rights in the United States, for example, and say "overall" how it makes me feel? What would even be the point of that?

    It seems to me that this thread is either for American patriots or "anti-Americans," both of which suffer from the mistaken conception that America is some kind of monolithic entity to be supported or opposed; in reality, the history of the United States is so complex and so diverse that the question becomes meaningless.

    I dislike the mass murdering of Native Americans; I like the civil rights movement. Overall, how should that make me feel?

    Moreover, what is the point in passing a post-judgment on history? I understand the idea of studying history to determine how we have got where we are at currently, and also studying it to learn how to act today, but I do not see a point in asking whether a given historical event was "good" or "bad".
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 05-07-09 at 10:36 AM.

  8. #18
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    Re: Regarding America's past

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Tucker, your label says "very liberal", did you notice that? I'm fairly sure it said something else last week.

    You're not going to change your gender too are you?
    Actually I think it's been like that for a while. I was surprised to, I thought it use to say moderate or something. Of course you know my position on moderates.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)

  9. #19
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    Re: Regarding America's past

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Going into more detail now:


    I picked "overall negative" based on the way that I weigh the negatives and positives. The biggest negatives in US history outweigh all the positives in my eyes because of their "atrocity" factor. The two biggest, IMO, are the genocide of the native population and slavery.

    Slavery was "rectified" in that it was made illegal, but that isn't a positive by my way of viewing things so much as it is a "return to neutral". Nothing can be done to erase the genocide. There were other things that happened in our history as well that I feel overshadow the "good". Japanese internment camps, Jim Crow, the a-bombs, the Tuskeegee incident etc.

    The reason why these things overshadow the positives is that our positive history is primarily with ideas specifically in the realms of philosophy, economics, science, politics etc, while our negative things all deal with human beings being murdered, maimed, downtrodden, subjugated, etc.

    In my view of the world, these negatives will always surpass those positives because human beings, individuals, matter more to me than concepts or material things.

    Now, since the question that was asked refers to opinions about our past, I have to lean towards the side of negative overall because of what was affected by the positives and negatives.

    Now, if the question was "How do you feel about the US's over all historical influence in the world: positive or negative" I would say that since concepts, inventions, and such have more overall positive influence globally, that I have a positive view overall of the US's historical influence on the world.

    But since it was just "past" in general, I took all factors into account, including my own system of weighing positives and negatives. Obviously actions directly taken against people, be they positive or negative, have the highest weight in my personal views. We've got more negative than positive on that front by a lot. That skews my view towards the negative.
    This is pretty much the rationale behind my vote.
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

  10. #20
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    Re: Regarding America's past

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I understand what the question is, which is what my response was directed at. Like I said in my previous post, it's like asking "Overall, what is your opinion of history?" It makes no sense because it's so vague that it's meaningless. Am I supposed to compare the rise of Fascism in Europe and the development of workers' rights in the United States, for example, and say "overall" how it makes me feel? What would even be the point of that?

    It seems to me that this thread is either for American patriots or "anti-Americans," both of which suffer from the mistaken conception that America is some kind of monolithic entity to be supported or opposed; in reality, the history of the United States is so complex and so diverse that the question becomes meaningless.

    I dislike the mass murdering of Native Americans; I like the civil rights movement. Overall, how should that make me feel?

    Moreover, what is the point in passing a post-judgment on history? I understand the idea of studying history to determine how we have got where we are at currently, and also studying it to learn how to act today, but I do not see a point in asking whether a given historical event was "good" or "bad".
    I can't believe this, I actually believe you have a decent point for once.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)

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