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Do You Belong Here?

Have you ever felt that you don't belong in your country?

  • Yes

    Votes: 13 31.7%
  • No

    Votes: 25 61.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 7.3%

  • Total voters
    41
No I assumed it because you are human. It would be very hard for you to really know a place and its community inside out without spending years there.

Our definitions of community conflict then.

I don't need to know a community inside and out to be part of it and make good connections. I've been in Nanjing for less than a year and already I have some really great friends and we have places we hang out at frequently. What we have is probably temporary but it doesn't make it any less of a community, and once we have gone our separate ways we'll still be in touch. If I go back to Canada, it's not important for me to know what my friend in Nanjing is doing every day, but it's enough for me to think about Nanjing and immediately think of the face of my good friend. I have community here.

As for really "knowing" a place... it depends on what you want to know and what you wish to accomplish there in the time you have. Any given place has a lot of stuff... I could spend a lifetime in China and still not have scratched the surface if I were just floating about.

I meant owed as in what is best for individual and social health. I think there is a subjective element but a large objective and social one as well.

My definition of community differs from yours and I feel pretty healthy.

Well I use it rather loosely but simply someone who wants to break down a lot of barriers and have people consider themselves larger and larger units.

What do you mean by larger and larger units?

As in you see and experience the people and place in your everyday working and recreational and general existence.
And you generally won't be able to know these one's as well as would be best if you don't spend a long time there.

I tend to spend a year minimum in the places I go, but even in places where I have spent less time, I've met some great people who I am still in contact with and who want to meet up with me in the future. I don't have to know those people for a long time to still care about them.

I met a Buddhist in Thailand who said to me: some friendships last a day, and some last lifetimes. Work with the time that you have rather than to focus on not having enough time.

For me, I don't HAVE to spend years in a place to make important connections with people.

It would be far less true if you lived there. When you live there the culture, region and people form part of your daily existence, if community is present of course.

Depends on where you live, I suppose, but I have never been in a place where I knew everyone there and, generally, what was going on. Even within communities there are smaller "locales" of people who are tightly woven. Its those niches that I tend to be part of, and the ones I remain connected to after I've left.

Not really. In a proper community my neighbour would know me for years, he'd know the same people I did, he'd know the same land and be of the same culture and local traditions. It would be very different.

Again, we have different definitions of what community means to us. I've done this exercise before in an official capacity with an organization I used to volunteer with. We had a round table with people from all over the world, and every one of them had a different definition.

One size does not fit all, but I respect your definition.

Yes but if you are an outsider who only spends a few months in a place I don't see how you can build the necessary connections to place and people.

I found the more I've travelled the easier it has become. A lot of what prevents the connections from happening are things like the initial culture shock, not feeling like you have a secure base for your basic needs, etc. With more travel experience, these things take less of your time, and you get into the local culture much more readily. At least, that is how it has worked for me.

I think a degree of mental divisions are good as long as they don't become too all consuming and narrow. This means that the local people are able to stand up for their rights and liberties against encroachment. I actually think though localism and regionalism help to guard against the "bigoted" and overly negative divisionism that you speak of. They are based on areas far more real to the individual and far less involved in power relations and such. I mean English nationalists are very interested in the power and glory of England measured usually in terms of size, economy and military power and influence but what does a man of Dorset or Wessex care about that. A small-scale patriot is not too interested in whether his region has the greatest armed forces or diplomatic influence but more its culture and society.

You're talking more on a political level now... I was talking more on a personal level.

The problem is that if one travels to see other local cultures then these will be very negatively effected by attitudes or at least realities that remove cultural significance completely from the local and regional area. It will likely just further the McDonaldisation of these cultures.

It depends on the place, the person going there, and the society at large, really. Even in the most xenophobic places, there are always people who are curious about the outside and, given the chance, would do their own exploring. I find the idea that a locale's culture belongs to it and it alone, and that no other people should "interfere", to be highly arrogant and ignorant. Instead of seeing a traveller as another human being coming to learn about them, they see them as an alien who is nothing like them. Even in xenophobic places, I have managed to have positive interactions with people which make them reconsider their views.

The other day one of my English students said that he hates the Japanese. All of them, no exception. I asked him, "So, if a Japanese person walked into the room right now, you would hate them?" He said yes. I said, so... what do you think about people who hate the Chinese? All of them, no exception. I said, "Do you think all Chinese deserve to be hated?" He paused. Somehow, this example changed his world view, because it brought the issue home for him.

If you are talking about corporate powers and big governments engaging in neo-imperialism, that's different. I'm talking about me, alone, travelling to a place.
 
Wow, this is getting a very large discussion. Let's try and trim it a little so we both don't have to make so massive postings.

Our definitions of community conflict then.

I don't need to know a community inside and out to be part of it and make good connections. I've been in Nanjing for less than a year and already I have some really great friends and we have places we hang out at frequently. What we have is probably temporary but it doesn't make it any less of a community, and once we have gone our separate ways we'll still be in touch. If I go back to Canada, it's not important for me to know what my friend in Nanjing is doing every day, but it's enough for me to think about Nanjing and immediately think of the face of my good friend. I have community here.

As for really "knowing" a place... it depends on what you want to know and what you wish to accomplish there in the time you have. Any given place has a lot of stuff... I could spend a lifetime in China and still not have scratched the surface if I were just floating about.
I think you are mistaking having some friends and having real community. Community requires small-scale associations and it requires several of these and for them to be part of your everyday life both ideationally and functionally. This is what ultimately a lot of community is built on. Friendships are important but they are far from what community is in it entirety.
What do you mean by larger and larger units?

Well like in Britain we have the peoples who want us to be Europeans and not British with the most extreme believing we should feel citizens of the earth instead of our countries and regions.
I tend to spend a year minimum in the places I go, but even in places where I have spent less time, I've met some great people who I am still in contact with and who want to meet up with me in the future. I don't have to know those people for a long time to still care about them.
I think your mistaking friendship and community.

Depends on where you live, I suppose, but I have never been in a place where I knew everyone there and, generally, what was going on. Even within communities there are smaller "locales" of people who are tightly woven. Its those niches that I tend to be part of, and the ones I remain connected to after I've left.
I understand what you are saying, I just don't feel it is the best sociologically stable method for large amounts of people. You are a rolling stone it seems but I don't think a sound foundation can be built if there are more than a minority of those.



If you are talking about corporate powers and big governments engaging in neo-imperialism, that's different. I'm talking about me, alone, travelling to a place.
I'm more talking of what is a general firm foundations for cultural and community health. I think it is fine you are a traveler, there have always been such people but I feel they must be a minority and in fact can only really gain a lot of what they do because most people have in the past been more attached and immersed in their local community and place than others.
 
Wow, this is getting a very large discussion. Let's try and trim it a little so we both don't have to make so massive postings.

If you prefer.

I think you are mistaking having some friends and having real community. Community requires small-scale associations and it requires several of these and for them to be part of your everyday life both ideationally and functionally. This is what ultimately a lot of community is built on. Friendships are important but they are far from what community is in it entirety.

I never limited my examples to friends, my examples just included friends. Again, your definition of community is different than mine, and that's okay.

Well like in Britain we have the peoples who want us to be Europeans and not British with the most extreme believing we should feel citizens of the earth instead of our countries and regions.
I think your mistaking friendship and community.

No, I'm not.

I understand what you are saying, I just don't feel it is the best sociologically stable method for large amounts of people. You are a rolling stone it seems but I don't think a sound foundation can be built if there are more than a minority of those.

Maybe... but I wasn't really discussing what was best for everyone else, I was just giving a personal, anecdotal example of my own life, and then you disagreed with it.

I'm more talking of what is a general firm foundations for cultural and community health. I think it is fine you are a traveler, there have always been such people but I feel they must be a minority and in fact can only really gain a lot of what they do because most people have in the past been more attached and immersed in their local community and place than others.

I've been lucky because I've had the means to go to many places, and by means I don't just mean money, but also opportunity. My neighbour and I were talking about exactly what you just said a couple of months ago. She said that every society has people who leave and people who stay, and that the people who stay are the ones that maintain the foundation and are the keepers of the community's history, while the people who leave are the new knowledge seekers who eventually return home to share their wisdom with the community.

I sort of agree with her... but I think with globalization, more and more people will have the chance to be the seekers. I don't know what this would mean in terms of long term consequences for local communities. Even within individual countries, big cities are absorbing smaller scale developments and most of the world now lives in big cities. Maybe it's just the way things are meant to go.
 
Maybe... but I wasn't really discussing what was best for everyone else, I was just giving a personal, anecdotal example of my own life, and then you disagreed with it.
Well I'm more talking from a sociological and political perspective.

I've been lucky because I've had the means to go to many places, and by means I don't just mean money, but also opportunity. My neighbour and I were talking about exactly what you just said a couple of months ago. She said that every society has people who leave and people who stay, and that the people who stay are the ones that maintain the foundation and are the keepers of the community's history, while the people who leave are the new knowledge seekers who eventually return home to share their wisdom with the community.
I agree here.

I sort of agree with her... but I think with globalization, more and more people will have the chance to be the seekers. I don't know what this would mean in terms of long term consequences for local communities. Even within individual countries, big cities are absorbing smaller scale developments and most of the world now lives in big cities. Maybe it's just the way things are meant to go.
I doubt the long term sustainability of globalisation but ignoring that I think that without the foundations the knowledge seekers are cut off from gaining knowledge and from transmitting it.

Anyway interesting chat.
 
I admit to feeling as though I don't really fit in America.

1) I hate sports.

2) Etiquette and courtesy are extremely important to me.

3) I reject Consumerism.

4) Very few people I meet are truly worth befriending (and most of those are Christian).

5) We're a culture of "it's all about..me!" (Yes, I'm guilty of it, too)

6) It's hard to shake the feeling that most people are either stupid, spoiled, or both.

7) I'm not competitive, I'd prefer to cooperate but it's amazing how little of this actually occurs in our culture.

8) We're so inundated with marketing, it's difficult to know what actually influences us. As much as I reject consumerism, I find myself humming catcy jingles to myself, in spite of my repulsion - which is exactly why marketing works. The average number of ads viewed per day is some ridiculous number over 1000, link if you're curious. Theory of media literacy: a ... - Google Book Search

9) Most people are so brainwashed, I actually find myself ostracized at times simply because I am unafraid to assert myself in refusing to engage in popular American activities (watching sports, television, shopping, etc).

10) It's unbelievably easy to get ripped off, from just about every direction.
 
I admit to feeling as though I don't really fit in America.

1) I hate sports.

2) Etiquette and courtesy are extremely important to me.

3) I reject Consumerism.

4) Very few people I meet are truly worth befriending (and most of those are Christian).

5) We're a culture of "it's all about..me!" (Yes, I'm guilty of it, too)

6) It's hard to shake the feeling that most people are either stupid, spoiled, or both.

7) I'm not competitive, I'd prefer to cooperate but it's amazing how little of this actually occurs in our culture.

8) We're so inundated with marketing, it's difficult to know what actually influences us. As much as I reject consumerism, I find myself humming catcy jingles to myself, in spite of my repulsion - which is exactly why marketing works. The average number of ads viewed per day is some ridiculous number over 1000, link if you're curious. Theory of media literacy: a ... - Google Book Search

9) Most people are so brainwashed, I actually find myself ostracized at times simply because I am unafraid to assert myself in refusing to engage in popular American activities (watching sports, television, shopping, etc).

10) It's unbelievably easy to get ripped off, from just about every direction.

Thats how I am except for the competitiveness. I love to win at whatever I do.

As far as people who I would befriend, I haven't met anyone, I would consider worthy of extending a long term friendship with, since I moved to where I am now.
 
I believe I am an international citizen, a man of the world; as this country is a part of said world, I suppose I belong here more or less.:2razz:


Dukers Beyond Borders
 
This is a very nationalistic country. I am not.
This is a very support your military country. I am not.
This is a very America love it or leave it country. I am not happy with what we have become as a nation.

I don't fit politically either.
 
We will live in the UK as long as my Mum is alive, at present I still dont have to many probs with the UK.

My heart has been stolen by my wifes country Croatia.

We have a house on the beautiful island of Hvar.

When I am there I can loose myself. drnis 004.jpgclic on pic,the view from our bedroom window, I have a boat in the cove and I fish for lunch each day.
 
We will live in the UK as long as my Mum is alive, at present I still dont have to many probs with the UK.

My heart has been stolen by my wifes country Croatia.

We have a house on the beautiful island of Hvar.

When I am there I can loose myself.View attachment 67109242clic on pic,the view from our bedroom window, I have a boat in the cove and I fish for lunch each day.

Beautiful view BLZ. My partner and i have a home in Marseilles that is where we will live when she retires. I find France more suitable to who I am. It seems more comfortable to me.
 
Beautiful view BLZ. My partner and i have a home in Marseilles that is where we will live when she retires. I find France more suitable to who I am. It seems more comfortable to me.
I spent a very unpleasant 10 days in prison in Marseilles, I was living in Frejeus at the time about 47 yrs ago. I was innocent but I was kicked out of France and my brother passport ( I stole it when I left home at 15yrs 6months) was stamped undesirable alien.

Its a very pleasant part of France:)
 
I selected yes.

I've been astounded, since my mid-twenties after the first time I travelled abroad, at how "high and mighty" America is. All through my years of grammar and high school, I remember being taught all about how grand, great, and "superior" this country is. We were taught very little about other countries. For quite some time as a child I thought America was the only country with TV and running water :roll:.

Then, in my mid-twenties, when I travelled to Europe I discovered people who not only knew and loved their countries, but knew quite a bit about mine as well. Children knew parts of our Constitution, knew some of our laws, and spoke several languages...fluently. It showed me just how "all that and then some" America thinks it is. Arrogance.

Oh, and the air smells here as well. The aromas while departing from my flights in the Netherlands, Germany and Scotland were light, fresh and clean smelling. Not here. First step outside after landing back in the states and all I could smell was filth. Disgusting.

-k
 
Oh, and the air smells here as well. The aromas while departing from my flights in the Netherlands, Germany and Scotland were light, fresh and clean smelling. Not here. First step outside after landing back in the states and all I could smell was filth. Disgusting.

I've noticed in my travels that countries that burn a lot of coal tend to have this problem.
 
I selected yes.

I've been astounded, since my mid-twenties after the first time I travelled abroad, at how "high and mighty" America is. All through my years of grammar and high school, I remember being taught all about how grand, great, and "superior" this country is. We were taught very little about other countries. For quite some time as a child I thought America was the only country with TV and running water :roll:.

Then, in my mid-twenties, when I travelled to Europe I discovered people who not only knew and loved their countries, but knew quite a bit about mine as well. Children knew parts of our Constitution, knew some of our laws, and spoke several languages...fluently. It showed me just how "all that and then some" America thinks it is. Arrogance.

Oh, and the air smells here as well. The aromas while departing from my flights in the Netherlands, Germany and Scotland were light, fresh and clean smelling. Not here. First step outside after landing back in the states and all I could smell was filth. Disgusting.

-k





That's funny, I find europe,especially the cities to have a putrid oferiferous emination.....



Go out in the country. :lol:
 
That's funny, I find europe,especially the cities to have a putrid oferiferous emination.....



Go out in the country. :lol:

I've been in the coutryside...both in the Netherlands and Scotland. Actually lived in a very rural area of the Friesland province of Netherlands for a few months. I never smelled the stench I do here. (And no, I don't live in the heart of Chicago, L.A., or New York City. :lol:)

-k
 
I've been in the coutryside...both in the Netherlands and Scotland. Actually lived in a very rural area of the Friesland province of Netherlands for a few months. I never smelled the stench I do here. (And no, I don't live in the heart of Chicago, L.A., or New York City. :lol:)

-k

Chicago actually smells pretty decent most of the time. Peoria or Gary smell ten times worse.
 
Chicago actually smells pretty decent most of the time. Peoria or Gary smell ten times worse.

I'm with you Chicago smells nice. i love the smell along LSD (Lake Shore Drive). It is beautiful and wonderful in the summer.
 
I'm with you Chicago smells nice. i love the smell along LSD (Lake Shore Drive). It is beautiful and wonderful in the summer.

Lake Shore, yes; O'Hare or Midway, no. There's a huge difference between the aromas of those areas. Standing just outside the doors at Schipol in Amsterdam does not smell anything like standing just outside the doors at O'Hare :lol:.

-k
 
Lake Shore, yes; O'Hare or Midway, no. There's a huge difference between the aromas of those areas. Standing just outside the doors at Schipol in Amsterdam does not smell anything like standing just outside the doors at O'Hare :lol:.

-k

I live by O'Hare. The smell improves once you get away from the airport. All those forest preserves around it clean the air.

And for the record, no airport-smell compares to the smell just outside Shannon in Ireland right after it's rained (which is pretty much any time you could possibly walk out of Shannon).
 
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