View Poll Results: Is this a "strong argument" for banning 'assault weapons'?

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Thread: Is this a "strong argument" for banning 'assault weapons'?

  1. #171
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    Re: Is this a "strong argument" for banning 'assault weapons'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    As long as those that own guns realize that they are part of the Militia and are willing to defend this nation, then I don't care either way.


    let's retouch this.


    US code, title 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > § 311

    § 311. Militia: composition and classes

    (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

    (b) The classes of the militia are—

    (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

    (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia


    What do you think the 2nd states regarding women and those not in the national guard who are over 45.

    do they have a right to keep and bear arms to you?


    thanks


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  2. #172
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Is this a "strong argument" for banning 'assault weapons'?

    [quote=LaMidRighter;1058010109]
    Stopping power of the round fired and the accuracy of the gun determines it's lethality not rate of fire it doesn't matter how many shots per minute you can fire if they can't stop the target or even hit it. If you need a rounds effective stopping power, there are ballistics formulas all over the place.



    ???? How do you figure, since the U.S. murder rate is up from when full autos were legal and readily accessible.

    No, it's not because they are illegal, because as it has been pointed out, they are legal if you meet the proper requirements. People aren't killed by full auto weapons often because the guns are easily traceable, they are expensive so it isn't a weapon you'll just ditch somewhere, the rounds get expensive after a while. A cheap .38 will kill someone just fine, and a 20$ street gun isn't going to be missed when thrown into the river.
    I looked on google for a list of gun lethality rating, but I couldn't find it. That list may change my opinion on this thread.


    Do you have any source for gun violence from automatic assult weapons?

    I couldn't find that either.

    There is a difference from murder rates from guns (because most murders are from handguns as everyone says) and murder rates from other weapons.

    As I said, there is nothing you can do with preventing most killings with handguns. Groucho Marx had a very interesting point about outlawing guns that can be concealed. But that will create an even larger underground market, and not to mention that it would be harder for people to defend themeselves with guns.



    Also, even if gun regulations on guns in general normally increases crime, the people who get the guns illegally need to get those guns from somewhere. Therefore, in the long run of having regulations on guns, as the ones that were purchased legally break down, then I would suspect that crimes rates would fall. That may take 50 years or much more though.
    Last edited by nerv14; 05-04-09 at 10:06 AM.

  3. #173
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    Re: Is this a "strong argument" for banning 'assault weapons'?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post

    I looked on google for a list of gun lethality rating, but I couldn't find it. That list may change my opinion on this thread.

    uhm you probably should look at the ammo, not the weapon.

    The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing


    Do you have any source for gun violence from automatic assult weapons?

    I couldn't find that either.
    because it is next to nill.


    There is a difference from murder rates from guns (because most murders are from handguns as everyone says) and murder rates from other weapons.

    As I said, there is nothing you can do with preventing most killings with handguns. Groucho Marx had a very interesting point about outlawing guns that can be concealed. But that will create an even larger underground market, and not to mention that it would be harder for people to defend themeselves with guns.



    Also, even if gun regulations on guns in general normally increases crime, the people who get the guns illegally need to get those guns from somewhere. Therefore, in the long run of having regulations on guns, as the ones that were purchased legally break down, then I would suspect that crimes rates would fall. That may take 50 years or much more though.

    has it ever happened before in history? NJ banned "assault weapons", crimes with them have remained the same, next to nill.


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  4. #174
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    Re: Is this a "strong argument" for banning 'assault weapons'?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    I find it hard to quantify a "weapon's relative deadliness" but maybe you can enlighten us.



    Great. The laws all work then.

    Maybe people aren't killed by automatic weapons very often because they are illegal. Do you know?

    I don't have all of the info, but after hearing the wealth of knowedge from you I am more confident with my view. Maybe its just that the educated gun crowd interprets the information wrong. who knows
    The weapons are not illegal in every aspect. Just hard to attain. But like I said, the people that are more likely to kill are able to attain them "illegally" already.

    What we are all upset with is that people are still trying to ban semi-automatics based on nothing more than appearance. As I posted before, there are three rifles, they are all the exact SAME rifle, the only difference is they are set in a different stock. Think of it as you in different clothing.

    One of them is illegal under the "assault weapon" laws. The other two are absolutely fine.

    That's the problem.

    And about the fully automatic weapon deal. It really has no impact on performance in capable hands anyways. People have too many misconceptions about firearms. It's actually very sad.
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  5. #175
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    Re: Is this a "strong argument" for banning 'assault weapons'?

    [quote=nerv14;1058010241]
    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I looked on google for a list of gun lethality rating, but I couldn't find it. That list may change my opinion on this thread.
    You need something from Google to tell you the lethality of a .30-06 compared to a 9mm?

    Do you have any source for gun violence from automatic assult weapons?
    There is no such thing as an automatic assault weapon, and so there IS no violence associated with them.

  6. #176
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    Re: Is this a "strong argument" for banning 'assault weapons'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post

    There is no such thing as an automatic assault weapon, and so there IS no violence associated with them.



    actually, technically, the only "assault rifles" are automatic.


    "assault rifle" came from the German "Sturmgewehr" which translates to, "storm rifle" which in german is synonymous to "assault" and refered to the smaller light and medium caliber fully automatic rifles, that superceded the larger caliber "battle rifles" of the time.


    Matthew 10:34
    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

  7. #177
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    Re: Is this a "strong argument" for banning 'assault weapons'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    actually, technically, the only "assault rifles" are automatic.


    "assault rifle" came from the German "Sturmgewehr" which translates to, "storm rifle" which in german is synonymous to "assault" and refered to the smaller light and medium caliber fully automatic rifles, that superceded the larger caliber "battle rifles" of the time.
    I was thinking that too.

  8. #178
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Is this a "strong argument" for banning 'assault weapons'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    actually, technically, the only "assault rifles" are automatic.
    Yes. And all 'assault weapons' are semi-auto.

    I really do not understand how people that do not have even a basic master of the terms involved in a conversation think that they can have a reasoned position IN that conversation.

  9. #179
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    Re: Is this a "strong argument" for banning 'assault weapons'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx View Post
    I'm going to go out on a limb here, and argue that it is handguns that should be illegal, not semi-automatic weapons. Handguns are easy to conceal. They are used in the vast majority of firearm related crimes. Even Olympic medal-winning marksmen have trouble hitting a target with the finest handguns in the world if the target is more than 50 yards away, so sporting applications of handguns are limited.

    And anyone who has served in the Army or Marines will confirm that if given a choice between a rifle or a handgun, any infantryman with at least two brain cells functioning will choose the rifle. .
    Handguns are the most commonly used firearm for self-defense... because they are convenient, handy and concealable. I have a concealed carry permit, it is both impractical and unlawful for me to walk around town toting a .308 boltgun, nor is that remotely the best weapon for normal civilian self-defense: in a crowd it would overpenetrate the target and be a greater risk to bystanders.

    You're ex-mil, I'm an ex-cop; I'm here to tell you, you either don't know much about civilian defensive shooting, or else you haven't thought this through so well, if you're advocating a handgun ban. I'll be nice and assume you haven't thought through all the ramifications.

    You like rifles, so you're fine with pistols being banned...see, this is the "as long as it's not MY ox getting gored, who cares" problem. If hunters don't stand up for the rights of defense-gunners, it won't be long before they're coming for your bolt-rifle and your over-under shotty-gun too.

    Stand together or hang seperately...



    G.
    Last edited by Goshin; 05-04-09 at 10:44 AM.

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  10. #180
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    Re: Is this a "strong argument" for banning 'assault weapons'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Yes. And all 'assault weapons' are semi-auto.

    I really do not understand how people that do not have even a basic master of the terms involved in a conversation think that they can have a reasoned position IN that conversation.




    who me?


    Matthew 10:34
    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

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