View Poll Results: Per the question in the thread

Voters
44. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, and I supported Afghanistan

    12 27.27%
  • Yes, and I supported Iraq

    0 0%
  • Yes, and I supported both

    10 22.73%
  • Yes, and I supported neither

    1 2.27%
  • No, and I supported Afghanistan

    4 9.09%
  • No, and I supported Iraq

    1 2.27%
  • No, and I supported both

    5 11.36%
  • No, and I suppported neither

    5 11.36%
  • Undecided, leaning towards yes

    3 6.82%
  • Undecided, leaning towards no

    3 6.82%
Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 101

Thread: Attack within Pakistan

  1. #61
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.
    Last Seen
    09-01-10 @ 03:23 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,324

    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    The people in Swat are not the exact same people as the rulers of Afghanistan, this is a misconception due to the media using the word poorly, an estimated 20-40% of those called Taliban are from that organisation or completely intertwined with it. There are links with many but the people in Swat are tribal groups trying to get their tribal law and autonomy, that they were promised in the original Pakistani constitution, recognised.
    Prove it.

    They are not about to take over Pakistan nor get hold of Nuclear weapons.
    Then why are they at the gates of Islamabad as we speak?

    Not by means that destabilise the world, destroy respect for national sovereignty and harm domestic liberty.
    Maybe we should ask them to pretty please stop invading Pakistan and trying to overthrow their government. Our right to stop jihadists from obtaining nuclear weapons trumps their right to sovereignty.

  2. #62
    Tavern Bartender
    #neverhillary
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    68,046

    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    The US Army got its ass handled by guerilleros in Viet-Nam, is going to retreat from Iraq and is not winning in Afghanistan, even with hundreds of billions of dollars being spent.

    Why do you think it would work in Pakistan? Why do you think it would not be a quagmire?
    You vastly overstate the premise of the Army getting its ass handled. The military did very well, the politicians and policies were the primary problems.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)

  3. #63
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    04-04-14 @ 01:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,233

    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Prove it.
    I saw it on I believe Newshour.

    What is certainly true is that this strange homogenous idea the media gives is far from that accurate. Those in the Swat have a large amount of native people wanting to resurrect their original constitutionally granted autonomy and law.

    Then why are they at the gates of Islamabad as we speak?
    Because it is close to the tribal areas. Are you suggesting they are likely to take it over. They are getting their butts kicked as we speak.

    [
    Maybe we should ask them to pretty please stop invading Pakistan
    Man you don't know what you are talking about.

    and trying to overthrow their government. Our right to stop jihadists from obtaining nuclear weapons trumps their right to sovereignty.
    Man I hate liberal interventionists. As if a world where China and Russia can ignore national sovereignty at the drop of a hat will ben an improvement.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  4. #64
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Whitewater, CO
    Last Seen
    04-05-16 @ 04:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,260
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    The people in Swat are not the exact same people as the rulers of Afghanistan, this is a misconception due to the media using the word poorly, an estimated 20-40% of those called Taliban are from that organisation or completely intertwined with it. There are links with many but the people in Swat are tribal groups trying to get their tribal law and autonomy, that they were promised in the original Pakistani constitution, recognised.

    They are not about to take over Pakistan nor get hold of Nuclear weapons.

    Not by means that destabilise the world, destroy respect for national sovereignty and harm domestic liberty.
    Stop making excuses.

    The Taliban MUST be stopped. If you do not have the stomach for it, step out of the way and leave it to the brave and the bold.

    In any event, your attitude reflects the attitudes of those who have allowed religious fundementalists to flourish in the first place.

    I find your castigation of preventative actions against he Taliban to be offensive and nieve.

    You should be ashamed of yourself.

  5. #65
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 06:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Stop making excuses.

    The Taliban MUST be stopped. If you do not have the stomach for it, step out of the way and leave it to the brave and the bold.
    The fallacy here is that A) the United States is capable of stopping the Taliban better than the elected government of Pakistan is, and B) that our presence wouldn't make the situation worse.

    It is highly unlikely that Pakistan's military would ever voluntarily turn over nuclear weapons or nuclear secrets to unreliable ****-ups like the Taliban. But if there's any chance at all that they would, a major American offensive in Pakistan just might be the best way to do it. Keep in mind that there are certain elements of the Pakistani Army who, if not outright sympathetic to the Taliban, are at least in cahoots with extremists.

    For now, we should continue doing what we've been doing: Assisting the government of Pakistan behind the scenes. US soldiers or bombs on Pakistani soil would most likely radicalize the population against us and further destabilize the government.

    Now if the Taliban actually succeeds in overthrowing the government (which seems less likely now than it did a couple weeks ago), then our options may have to change. But for now, it would be foolish to attack within Pakistan.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  6. #66
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    04-04-14 @ 01:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,233

    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Stop making excuses.

    The Taliban MUST be stopped.
    Who are the Taliban? I'm looking for a decent definition before I consider invading places.
    If you do not have the stomach for it, step out of the way and leave it to the brave and the bold.
    This is not an argument.
    In any event, your attitude reflects the attitudes of those who have allowed religious fundementalists to flourish in the first place.
    Conservatives?

    I find your castigation of preventative actions against he Taliban to be offensive and nieve.
    I find your breathtaking lack of respect for national sovereignty and complete militarism and interventionism to be offensive and downright dangerous, perhaps one of the most dangerous currents in Western society today.

    You should be ashamed of yourself.
    As should you.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  7. #67
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Whitewater, CO
    Last Seen
    04-05-16 @ 04:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,260
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I saw it on I believe Newshour.

    What is certainly true is that this strange homogenous idea the media gives is far from that accurate. Those in the Swat have a large amount of native people wanting to resurrect their original constitutionally granted autonomy and law.

    Because it is close to the tribal areas. Are you suggesting they are likely to take it over. They are getting their butts kicked as we speak.

    Man you don't know what you are talking about.

    Man I hate liberal interventionists. As if a world where China and Russia can ignore national sovereignty at the drop of a hat will ben an improvement.
    News flash!!!

    The Taliban need to be stopped.

    If you don't have the stomach to help, get out of the way and remain quiet.

  8. #68
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Whitewater, CO
    Last Seen
    04-05-16 @ 04:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,260
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The fallacy here is that A) the United States is capable of stopping the Taliban better than the elected government of Pakistan is, and B) that our presence wouldn't make the situation worse.
    Typical liberal rhetoric. Most liberals know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about warfare. Ergo ... the liberal opinion of this situation is a falacy that must be completely ignored.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It is highly unlikely that Pakistan's military would ever voluntarily turn over nuclear weapons or nuclear secrets to unreliable ****-ups like the Taliban. But if there's any chance at all that they would, a major American offensive in Pakistan just might be the best way to do it. Keep in mind that there are certain elements of the Pakistani Army who, if not outright sympathetic to the Taliban, are at least in cahoots with extremists.
    Again ... you have no clue what you're talking about. We're NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PAKISTANIS HANDING IT OVER VOLUTARILY!!!! HELLO MCFLY?

    We're talking about the Taliban SIEZING THOSE WEAPONS FROM THE PAKISTANI GOVERNMENT!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    For now, we should continue doing what we've been doing: Assisting the government of Pakistan behind the scenes. US soldiers or bombs on Pakistani soil would most likely radicalize the population against us and further destabilize the government.
    Actually ... the Pakistanis dislike the Taliban more than we do. Therefore, if Taliban members are being killed I doubt the Pakistanis will give much of a damn that we're killing terrorists inside their country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Now if the Taliban actually succeeds in overthrowing the government (which seems less likely now than it did a couple weeks ago), then our options may have to change. But for now, it would be foolish to attack within Pakistan.
    Says you!

    You know nothing about military operations. The key here is to STOP THE TALIBAN BEFORE they are able to sieze nuclear weapons from Pakistan.

    We CANNOT wait until AFTER THE FACT. It will be TOO LATE to stop them if we do.

    You need to realize that the time to act is NOW. The Pakistani government has realized this fact.... WHY CAN'T YOU?

    The Talibastards are being stopped because they are a bunch of ****bags who deserve a painful death.

    Get with the program or go read a book.

    Please refrain from dooming the rest of us to die because you do not see any reason to prevent terrorists from being able to cause death and destruction.

  9. #69
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 06:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Typical liberal rhetoric. Most liberals know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about warfare. Ergo ... the liberal opinion of this situation is a falacy that must be completely ignored.
    Juvenile name-calling aside, I find it funny that you can make this claim after the previous president - hardly a liberal wuss - essentially drove our foreign policy into the ditch. Recent history simply does not match up with this.

    Furthermore, what makes you think that American leaders understand Pakistan's problems better than Pakistani leaders do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    Again ... you have no clue what you're talking about. We're NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PAKISTANIS HANDING IT OVER VOLUTARILY!!!! HELLO MCFLY?

    We're talking about the Taliban SIEZING THOSE WEAPONS FROM THE PAKISTANI GOVERNMENT!!!!!
    Oh noes, you're typing in caps. That must mean your argument is more logically sound than mine.

    You need not worry about the Taliban forcibly seizing the weapons from the Pakistani military. The Pakistani military has kicked the Taliban's ass pretty much every time they've directly engaged in combat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    Actually ... the Pakistanis dislike the Taliban more than we do. Therefore, if Taliban members are being killed I doubt the Pakistanis will give much of a damn that we're killing terrorists inside their country.
    How would you like it if, for example, a foreign country bombed the **** out of Kansas to get rid of the Westboro Baptist Church, or bombed the **** out of Michigan to get rid of Tim McVeigh's buddies...without our elected government's permission?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    Says you! You know nothing about military operations. The key here is to STOP THE TALIBAN BEFORE they are able to sieze nuclear weapons from Pakistan.

    We CANNOT wait until AFTER THE FACT. It will be TOO LATE to stop them if we do.
    You misunderstand what "seizing nuclear weapons" entails. Let's say that hypothetically, the Taliban mounted some huge offensive against a nuclear facility and somehow managed to overtake the Pakistani military. It's not as though they would suddenly be able to press a button and destroy a major city within the hour. A nuclear weapon is an extremely complicated machine. There are too many safeguards in place for that, and no one in the Taliban would have much experience with the nukes anyway. It would take them, at a minimum, a year to even figure out how it works and how to operate it. That would be plenty of time for us to act if necessary. Our military undoubtedly has contingency plans in place that could be carried out within a day or two, let alone an entire year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    You need to realize that the time to act is NOW. The Pakistani government has realized this fact.... WHY CAN'T YOU?
    Like I said, I am completely in favor of assisting the Pakistani government. But American boots on the ground is neither helpful to the Pakistanis nor desired by the Pakistanis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    The Talibastards are being stopped because they are a bunch of ****bags who deserve a painful death.

    Get with the program or go read a book.

    Please refrain from dooming the rest of us to die because you do not see any reason to prevent terrorists from being able to cause death and destruction.
    It is emotion-filled, logic-free rhetoric like this that makes it obvious that you should have absolutely no say in foreign policy. Fortunately, the people in charge of our foreign policy seem less driven by emotion than you.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 05-15-09 at 03:27 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  10. #70
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    04-04-14 @ 01:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,233

    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    News flash!!!

    The Taliban need to be stopped.

    If you don't have the stomach to help, get out of the way and remain quiet.
    I don't take orders from you, if you don't want to discuss this like a grown up and just want to continue your usual extreme and absurd comments then that is not my fault.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •