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  • Yes, and I supported Afghanistan

    12 27.27%
  • Yes, and I supported Iraq

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  • Yes, and I supported both

    10 22.73%
  • Yes, and I supported neither

    1 2.27%
  • No, and I supported Afghanistan

    4 9.09%
  • No, and I supported Iraq

    1 2.27%
  • No, and I supported both

    5 11.36%
  • No, and I suppported neither

    5 11.36%
  • Undecided, leaning towards yes

    3 6.82%
  • Undecided, leaning towards no

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Thread: Attack within Pakistan

  1. #51
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    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Wouldnt the fact that the government of Pakistan is currently at war with the taliban appear to contradict this?
    Who are the Taliban? Would someone care to give an actual definition in this context? As far as I can see the people in Swat are the tribal people there who were promised their tribal law under the British and when Pakistan became a country which the central gov't then has tried to reverse. They might have links with some of the genuine Taliban but as usual the term Taliban is being thrown around willy nilly.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  2. #52
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    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    Its a difficult question with a lot of competing variables to weigh. Here's a few that come to mind.

    1. How much could be gained in the fight against the Taliban by such a strike?

    If we could wipe out the Taliban completely, it becomes much more appealing. Even preventing them from seizing power in Pakinstan would be a worthwhile goal. But if were talking about just capturing/killing a few people and/or bases of operation then the gains are far les significant. What are the realistic gains we can hope to achieve?

    2. How much would such an action destablize the Pakistani government?

    If it lead to a complete collapse of the Pakistani government, that could be disasterous given their status as a nuclear power. We definately don't want to acceleerate or cause such a collapse. However if the Pakistani government is going to collapse either way, then it could be worth it just to prevent the Taliban from filling the void.

    3. Would it further radicalize the Pakistani population?

    As others have pointed out, it is difficult if nto impossible to completely defeat guerrilla/insurgent forces with traditional armies. Hearts and minds of local populations is very important in limiting and eventually eliminating such forces. Would such an action be seen as a hostile invasion by a large segment of the Pakistani population? Would it push them closer to the Taliban and other radical militant elements?

    One thing I would say is aboslute is that militant radicals such as the Taliban cannot be allowed to gain access to Pakistan's nuclear arsenal. I think in that point we would have pretty widespread international support, particularly from India, Isreal, and probably even Iran.
    At least right now, with Pakistan FINALLY doing something theirselves, more drone attacks by America would just make the population lose all of their desire to fight that Taliban.

    Even if we could help Pakistan strategically, if Pakistan is really going to push back the Taliban then they don't really need our help, even if theoretically we could quicken Pakistan's victory.

  3. #53
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    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Wouldnt the fact that the government of Pakistan is currently at war with the taliban appear to contradict this?
    Not really because they aren't actually fighting them, the Pakistani government has repeatedly offered amnesty and asylum to the Taliban, it is in fact the Taliban that is attacking the Pakistani state not the other way around.

  4. #54
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    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Wouldnt the fact that the government of Pakistan is currently at war with the taliban appear to contradict this?
    They're at war "NOW" but that wasn't the cause when this topic came up for discussion.


  5. #55
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    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Aggressive interventionists must be stopped. We cannot let militarists and interventionists like yourself to pervert our civilisation and security to lead to the rise of despotism.
    Yet more rhetotic.

    Stoping Iran and the Taliban from getting nukes PREVENTS issues. I am sorry you are unable to see that.

    You cannot bury your head in the sand and wait for Iran and the Taliban to calm down. That will not work.

  6. #56
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    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    They're at war "NOW" but that wasn't the cause when this topic came up for discussion.

    No its been going on for a couple of years now

  7. #57
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    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Yet more rhetotic.


    You accusing anyone of rhetoric.


    Stoping Iran and the Taliban from getting nukes PREVENTS issues. I am sorry you are unable to see that.
    Intervening in foreign countries reduces external security by making the world more unstable and giving less and less respect for national sovereignty. It also erodes domestic liberty by being an more continuous war footing and giving the military more and more of a place in society. I'm sorry you cannot grasp this. There are few things more dangerous than aggressive interventionists.

    You cannot bury your head in the sand and wait for Iran and the Taliban to calm down. That will not work.
    You cannot solve the world's problems and you will create more if you try as keeps happening.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  8. #58
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    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post


    There are few things more dangerous than aggressive interventionists.
    Ya for example apocalyptic religious fundamentalists with nuclear weapons who are bent on destroying liberal democracy and establishing a one world caliphate ruled under puritanical sharia law. Besides the war with the Taliban is not interventionist it is a defensive war in response to the U.S. being attacked.

  9. #59
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    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman
    Aggressive interventionists must be stopped
    The global jihadists who are murdering innocent people every day of the week in all four corners of the world must be stopped.

  10. #60
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    Re: Attack within Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Ya for example apocalyptic religious fundamentalists with nuclear weapons who are bent on destroying liberal democracy and establishing a one world caliphate ruled under puritanical sharia law. Besides the war with the Taliban is not interventionist it is a defensive war in response to the U.S. being attacked.
    The people in Swat are not the exact same people as the rulers of Afghanistan, this is a misconception due to the media using the word poorly, an estimated 20-40% of those called Taliban are from that organisation or completely intertwined with it. There are links with many but the people in Swat are tribal groups trying to get their tribal law and autonomy, that they were promised in the original Pakistani constitution, recognised.

    They are not about to take over Pakistan nor get hold of Nuclear weapons.

    The global jihadists who are murdering innocent people every day of the week in all four corners of the world must be stopped.
    Not by means that destabilise the world, destroy respect for national sovereignty and harm domestic liberty.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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