View Poll Results: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Family Member?

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  • Yes

    61 80.26%
  • No

    15 19.74%
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Thread: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

  1. #201
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Which is unfortunate.

    The reality of dealing with terrorists runs smack into naive idealism.
    A slight correction here. *Not terrorists, but *detainees. Particularly those who have been released and proven NOT to be terrorists.

    You cannot assume that every detainee in Gitmo is a terrorist, given the past history of Gitmo. That would be naive.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Which is unfortunate.



    A slight correction here. *Not terrorists, but *detainees. Particularly those who have been released and proven NOT to be terrorists.

    You cannot assume that every detainee in Gitmo is a terrorist, given the past history of Gitmo. That would be naive.
    It's the result of terrorism and terrorists. The US had to protect itself in very sketchy circumstances. 3000+ civilians just living their regular lives were murdered on our soil. No--it wasn't a "perfect" response, and some individuals erred, but it was the best we could do under the circumstances--and we have been safe partially because of it.

    Hind sight is 20/20.

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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    The mental stability of a detainee should still be important, however, because they are the ones providing you with the information. If their mental processes is compromised, how do you know if the information they give you is accurate? On top of the fact that they might be lying to you?

    The problem is the assumption that the torture will provide useful information, which can be useless, harmless, or harmful, to completing our task. It is not a guarantee that it will be successful, nor does it mean that torture will be a step toward success.
    No form of interrogation is guaranteed to be successful. Whether it's asking them nicely or subjecting them to "torture", all information obtained during an interrogation requires corroboration. If the possibility of receiving false or misleading information were sufficient cause to disallow an interrogation technique then no technique would be acceptable.

  4. #204
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    It's the result of terrorism and terrorists. The US had to protect itself in very sketchy circumstances. 3000+ civilians just living their regular lives were murdered on our soil. No--it wasn't a "perfect" response, and some individuals erred, but it was the best we could do under the circumstances--and we have been safe partially because of it.
    Which is absolutely fine.

    In the other thread, where the OP asked if torture is ever Moral, I said no. But that doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do.

    Would I torture someone if it would save my family? Hell yea, I would! But that doesn't make it the moral thing to do. The immorality here is excusable under the circumstances. The whole thing that frustrates me is that people like Celticlord seems to think that just because it's justifiable makes it not immoral. This is how the terrorists win.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    No form of interrogation is guaranteed to be successful. Whether it's asking them nicely or subjecting them to "torture", all information obtained during an interrogation requires corroboration. If the possibility of receiving false or misleading information were sufficient cause to disallow an interrogation technique then no technique would be acceptable.
    True, but which one is more likely to give you accurate information though? A broken mind? Or one that still functions?
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Which is absolutely fine.

    In the other thread, where the OP asked if torture is ever Moral, I said no. But that doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do.

    Would I torture someone if it would save my family? Hell yea, I would! But that doesn't make it the moral thing to do. The immorality here is excusable under the circumstances. The whole thing that frustrates me is that people like Celticlord seems to think that just because it's justifiable makes it not immoral. This is how the terrorists win.
    Wouldn't it be morally neutral if it is justified? Isn't that what "justified" means?

    No--it wouldn't make a bad act good, but it can make a normally bad act, morally reasonable, and thus just.

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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Wouldn't it be morally neutral if it is justified? Isn't that what "justified" means?

    No--it wouldn't make a bad act good, but it can make a normally bad act, morally reasonable, and thus just.
    I can accept neutral, even reasonable. But it can never be an act of good.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    I probably would but I would go about it in having the scumbags own family kidnapped and use them as a bargaining chip since most of the time my family would has already been killed and the thug is just lying to me.
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    True, but which one is more likely to give you accurate information though? A broken mind? Or one that still functions?
    1. This question assumes the functional mind is actually willing to give you any information; in such a case "torture" would be completely unnecessary, therefore your dichotomy is contextually irrelevant.

    2. What difference does it make? Regardless of how the information is obtained it will need to be corroborated. If our intelligence experts are willing to pay the opportunity costs associated with bad intel then I'm inclined to trust their judgment.

    It's like having a toolbox. Sometimes a task requires needle-nosed pliers. Other times it requires a Phillips head screwdriver. Which means if you take away a plumberís plunger, don't expect him to unclog your toilet.

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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    The whole thing that frustrates me is that people like Celticlord seems to think that just because it's justifiable makes it not immoral. This is how the terrorists win.
    And what frustrates me is that people like you will prattle about the immorality of things and then proceed to pile rationalization upon rationalization about why they would do that which they claim is immoral.

    If you cannot defend it as good, you should not do it. If you want to declaim torture as immoral, do not say that you would. If you are willing to torture, do not pontificate about its putative immorality. Such hypocrisy is what gives terrorists their victory.

    If you want to condemn torture as immoral, then do so and with a vengeance. Don't corrode your stance with hypocritical justifications and self-serving rationalizations.

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