View Poll Results: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Family Member?

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  • Yes

    61 80.26%
  • No

    15 19.74%
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Thread: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

  1. #191
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    says the guy who doesn't know multiplication
    I don't understand. Are you suggesting that believing you are going to die the third time is worse than believing you're going to die the fourth time? Does that mean the third time you didn't really believe you were going to die? Actually, I would think the more you "survive" the "torture" the more you would believe that survival was going to be the outcome.

  2. #192
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    says the guy who doesn't know multiplication
    It would be simple enough to prove me wrong. Merely answer the question. Surely the question is not too taxing for one of your intellectual heft?

  3. #193
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    What if that retarded, siamese twin baby didn't know what you wanted to get out of them? What if they gave you misleading info, just to stop the torture, that caused you to go in one direction causing the deaths of your family?
    They would not be in my hot seat if there wasnt sufficient reason to suspect that they did.

    If the retarded siamese twin baby was a part of a group that was going to or had attacked my house/family they have given me sufficient reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Don't apologize to me over that silly ****. I could care less if I can see the dust or not.
    Now apologize for apologizing!

  4. #194
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    I don't understand. Are you suggesting that believing you are going to die the third time is worse than believing you're going to die the fourth time? Does that mean the third time you didn't really believe you were going to die? Actually, I would think the more you "survive" the "torture" the more you would believe that survival was going to be the outcome.
    The assumption that you are making here is that the victim in this case is still operating under normal mental circumstances. In other words, you're assuming that this person is still going to make logical decisions. If that person is being tortured, mentally tortured in this case, this cannot be assumed.

    Each time the fear of death is induced, the victim is pushed further and further into a chemical imbalance in the brain causing behavior to be unstable. This instability, as you can imagine, is multiplied by the number of times that person is subjected to waterboarding (the mental torture). The severe mental duress, which you and I both know very well because we're teachers , lasts not only thru the intervals where the torture takes place, but there is also permanent damage done to the human psyche and will likely affect the victim's life from now on.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  5. #195
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    The assumption that you are making here is that the victim in this case is still operating under normal mental circumstances. In other words, you're assuming that this person is still going to make logical decisions. If that person is being tortured, mentally tortured in this case, this cannot be assumed.

    Each time the fear of death is induced, the victim is pushed further and further into a chemical imbalance in the brain causing behavior to be unstable. This instability, as you can imagine, is multiplied by the number of times that person is subjected to waterboarding (the mental torture). The severe mental duress, which you and I both know very well because we're teachers , lasts not only thru the intervals where the torture takes place, but there is also permanent damage done to the human psyche and will likely affect the victim's life from now on.
    I guess my question is: "So?"

    Especially considering the premise of the OP, the dude was already not an "integrated" personality--and there was an imminent threat. I'm not worried about the mental stability of an already unstable person who has information that could prevent real physical damage to others.

    Death can affect the victims' life from now on, too. Not to mention the mental anguish inflicted on all the others the terrorist's actions obliquely affect.

    Actions have consequences. If you're a bad dude willing to inflict such harm on others, you should expect that your mental "well-being" is not going to be handle with kid gloves should you fall into the hands of those you are trying to harm. That just seems...obvious.

  6. #196
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    Re:

    Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?


    in a heartbeat
    Ill keep my guns, torah, bible, and money.....you can keep the change

  7. #197
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by cherokee View Post
    Even now
    People cant imagine how far I would go to save the lives of my fellow Americans.
    I can, you'd nuke some population. Because you are sick with Jingoism.

    Here's how your nationalistic fantasy never ends: Then the families of those nuked plot some revenge and therefore you have to retaliate against them and of course they retaliate...

  8. #198
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    I can, you'd nuke some population. Because you are sick with Jingoism.

    Here's how your nationalistic fantasy never ends: Then the families of those nuked plot some revenge and therefore you have to retaliate against them and of course they retaliate...
    From 21st century entertainment comes :RETALIATION!" In theatres July '09.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Don't apologize to me over that silly ****. I could care less if I can see the dust or not.
    Now apologize for apologizing!

  9. #199
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    I guess my question is: "So?"

    Especially considering the premise of the OP, the dude was already not an "integrated" personality--and there was an imminent threat. I'm not worried about the mental stability of an already unstable person who has information that could prevent real physical damage to others.
    I understand that, but...

    At this point of the thread, I don't think we're addressing the OP anymore. I thought it was clear that we were talking about Gitmo and how their detainees are being treated?

    The mental stability of a detainee should still be important, however, because they are the ones providing you with the information. If their mental processes is compromised, how do you know if the information they give you is accurate? On top of the fact that they might be lying to you?

    The problem is the assumption that the torture will provide useful information, which can be useless, harmless, or harmful, to completing our task. It is not a guarantee that it will be successful, nor does it mean that torture will be a step toward success.

    Death can affect the victims' life from now on, too. Not to mention the mental anguish inflicted on all the others the terrorist's actions obliquely affect.
    I agree. So neither death, nor torture, is useful.

    Actions have consequences. If you're a bad dude willing to inflict such harm on others, you should expect that your mental "well-being" is not going to be handle with kid gloves should you fall into the hands of those you are trying to harm. That just seems...obvious.
    Of course. But, the qualifier is "If you're a bad dude..."

    Gitmo detainees that have been freed have filed law suits over torture because they have been wrongfully detained, and having their Civil Rights/Human Rights suspended.

    Some of them, who have been tortured, "went back onto the battlefield" (as Cheney said), but we're not sure if they were terrorists before or after their detainment.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    I understand that, but...

    At this point of the thread, I don't think we're addressing the OP anymore. I thought it was clear that we were talking about Gitmo and how their detainees are being treated?

    The mental stability of a detainee should still be important, however, because they are the ones providing you with the information. If their mental processes is compromised, how do you know if the information they give you is accurate? On top of the fact that they might be lying to you?

    The problem is the assumption that the torture will provide useful information, which can be useless, harmless, or harmful, to completing our task. It is not a guarantee that it will be successful, nor does it mean that torture will be a step toward success.



    I agree. So neither death, nor torture, is useful.



    Of course. But, the qualifier is "If you're a bad dude..."

    Gitmo detainees that have been freed have filed law suits over torture because they have been wrongfully detained, and having their Civil Rights/Human Rights suspended.

    Some of them, who have been tortured, "went back onto the battlefield" (as Cheney said), but we're not sure if they were terrorists before or after their detainment.
    You do recognize that Gitmo will remain open.

    Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

    Obama, in Reversal of Campaign Pledge, May Use Military Commissions

    The reality of dealing with terrorists runs smack into naive idealism.

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