View Poll Results: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Family Member?

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  • Yes

    61 80.26%
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    15 19.74%
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Thread: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

  1. #11
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    I do believe there are lines that one shouldn't cross unless one wants to become the monster he despises.

    I don't believe in engaging in a process that leaves permanent bodily damage. I don't think even in the hypothetical given I could chop off digits, or set someone on fire. I could and would kill in self defense of my family. But I don't think I'd be able to stomach any intensely brutal torturing process as a means of getting what I wanted.

    That said I wouldn't have an issue with things that did not cause permanent bodily damage but did cause intense in the moment discomfort. Waterboarding, sleep deprivation, etc. I would probably also not have issue with punches in the face, smacks upside the head, shoving, etc. But could I take pliers and chop off another persons finger in order to extract info? No.

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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    It is not meant to elicit idiotic references to the television show 24.
    .
    Nothing idiotic about them in the other threads. This is a direct thread about said situations but when people imply them or posit them randomly within other discussions it is fine to call them out on such. If you don't like being called on such then don't do it. Don't make cranky, reference to them later though because you're pissed off at being made to look stupid.

    To be honest I consider what you did, attempt to make a controversial point while attempting to be beyond reproach for it a rather cowardly act. If you want to object to being called out on the 24-like scenarios your argument relies on then do so in the threads, don't do it here where you think you can't be responded to.



    As for this thread, it is not something I can answer off the top of my head. To "brutally" torture is not something within my life's experiences and I have never been in said situation.

    I think I could kill for my family, I could beat some on up for them but to sit down and torture is something else.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 04-22-09 at 09:47 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  3. #13
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I do believe there are lines that one shouldn't cross unless one wants to become the monster he despises.
    The monster I despise is the ineffective wimp who won't do what's necessary to prevent harm to his loved ones.

    If the means at my disposal is nothing but a sharp knife and a blow torch, the criminal that's not telling me what he's done with my family member is going to have very permanent body damage indeed.

    You don't really love someone unless you're willing to kill those who harm them.

  4. #14
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    To be honest I consider what you did, attempt to make a controversial point while attempting to be beyond reproach for it a rather cowardly act. If you want to object to being called out on the 24-like scenarios your argument relies on then do so in the threads, don't do it here where you think you can't be responded to.
    Interjecting all manner of moral gymnastics to evade the simple yes/no answer sought might be construed as moral cowardice of the worst sort.

    Moral choices involve two syllables: "yes" and "no". If you can't use one of those to answer the question, then you're dodging the question.

    That's cowardice.

  5. #15
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    The monster I despise is the ineffective wimp who won't do what's necessary to prevent harm to his loved ones.
    Sometimes there are values more important than base ideas of harm.

    Like the legendary Roman generals who executed their sons, who though they had won great victories they had done so by disobeying orders or the Carthaginians who would rather perish along with their families and city rather than compromise with Rome and leave the city to start again in another spot.

    And I'm far from a universalist liberal, I'm the one of the most particularlist people you will ever meet. My loyalities are unashamedly far more so for my family, friends, colleagues, local community, county and region, then my country and then humanity at large. But I do have principles and values beyond Benthamite utilitarianism, values that spring from my family and my community, its history and traditions and some of these I would be loath to quickly sacrifice for the basest idea of safety.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 04-22-09 at 10:00 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Sometimes there are values more important than base ideas of harm.
    Maybe to some people. Not all people.

  7. #17
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Interjecting all manner of moral gymnastics to evade the simple yes/no answer sought might be construed as moral cowardice of the worst sort.

    Moral choices involve two syllables: "yes" and "no". If you can't use one of those to answer the question, then you're dodging the question.

    That's cowardice.


    Is there any for you to insult me such? I gave my views on this question above, I'll say would do it but it is a slightly empty phrase being beyond anything I ever experienced, I however do not consider it simple or an easy yes or no answer, the important things in life rarely are such and to try and reduce them to such is a fool's errand.

    To quote Burke.

    The nature of man is intricate; the objects of society are of the greatest possible complexity; and, therefore, no simple disposition or direction of power can be suitable either to man's nature or to the quality of his affairs.


    I have a Conservatives disdain for simplistic, reductionist ideas of morality, they bring nothing but trouble, we've seen them all before.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 04-22-09 at 10:13 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    To quote Burke.
    Burke was wrong.

  9. #19
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Maybe to some people. Not all people......

    Burke was wrong.
    Not arguments.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  10. #20
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    You don't really love someone unless you're willing to kill those who harm them.
    I'm willing to kill for loved ones. But I don't think I'm willing to play before doing so.

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