View Poll Results: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Family Member?

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  • Yes

    61 80.26%
  • No

    15 19.74%
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Thread: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

  1. #111
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Morality is always unstable, this does not mean one should completely abandon it.

    One certainly should not abandon it just because he classifies the enemy as having none. Not only is morality as much about how these acts will effect him and his society but it is a very dangerous path to declare someone an "enemy" and therefore beyond all any esort of boundaries or restrictions in what can be done with them.

    I think people need to abandon these simplistic ideas on morality, stop trying to excuse doing any to someone just because they are your enemy and go and read Shakespeare, the best tool for morality and its very difficult application in the real world you will find.
    This argument only sustains if the use of torture is itself an abandonment of said morality. I am not at all persuaded that such is categorically true, and, in the case of the hypothetical posited at the beginning, am of the opinion that torture would in fact be most moral.

  2. #112
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    This argument only sustains if the use of torture is itself an abandonment of said morality. I am not at all persuaded that such is categorically true, and, in the case of the hypothetical posited at the beginning, am of the opinion that torture would in fact be most moral.
    The point is the hypothetical is useless, it is an abstract, extreme scenario beyond the realms of most people's experience and so can tell us little beyond the fact that many of us would contemplate torture in such a scenario while sitting at home and never having been in anything like that scenario.

    But also what Utahbill seemed to be suggesting and what others have implied is not only when someone is an enemy can we torture them any way we wish if it is useful but we can do just about anything, there are no boundaries or restrictions. You want to smoke out your enemy, then presumably it is fine to round up his children as hostages or machine gun them into mass graves. The implication is that anything is okay.

    This I object to, and it is partly because of my family and community and the morality they have instilled in me.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 04-25-09 at 08:41 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  3. #113
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    I'm not derailing anything, I'm merely asking what your intentions are with it.
    My intentions are the same as anyone else who starts a poll; to pose a question and obtain varying perspectives. I think what you're really trying to ask me is whether or not I have an ulterior motive. Perhaps I do, perhaps I don't, but I'm not sure why that should stop you from answering a simple question.

    I'm not going to answer your silly poll if the purpose is to bait, which by all outward appearances is the purpose. The fact that you aren't forthcoming with what your intentions are makes me suspect even more that the purpose of this poll is to bait.
    Bait? You mean expose hypocrisy or inconsistency? Perhaps that's why you're so hesitant to answer the question. No matter, I have enough material to start my follow up.

  4. #114
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    I would without remorse.


    Matthew 10:34
    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

  5. #115
    Androgyne
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    My intentions are the same as anyone else who starts a poll; to pose a question and obtain varying perspectives. I think what you're really trying to ask me is whether or not I have an ulterior motive. Perhaps I do, perhaps I don't, but I'm not sure why that should stop you from answering a simple question.
    We both know you do have an ulterior motive, so perhaps you should just be forthcoming with it instead of playing games.

    Bait? You mean expose hypocrisy or inconsistency? Perhaps that's why you're so hesitant to answer the question. No matter, I have enough material to start my follow up.
    I would be hesitant to answer the question regardless because I think baiting is a sleazy and underhanded way of proving a point. And yes that is baiting. You can paint it however you want, but it doesn't change a thing.

  6. #116
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    We both know you do have an ulterior motive, so perhaps you should just be forthcoming with it instead of playing games.



    I would be hesitant to answer the question regardless because I think baiting is a sleazy and underhanded way of proving a point. And yes that is baiting. You can paint it however you want, but it doesn't change a thing.



    why is it baiting?



    hell I'd use it to save one of YOUR relatives who were in mortal danger....


    not baiting or hard to answer at all.


    Matthew 10:34
    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

  7. #117
    Androgyne
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    why is it baiting?



    hell I'd use it to save one of YOUR relatives who were in mortal danger....


    not baiting or hard to answer at all.
    It's not the question that's baiting. It's the fact that he has an ulterior motive behind the question. I agree with you that the question is simple. A person would do damn near anything to save a loved one. I just think that asking a question like that with an ulterior motive is lame, especially when you aren't forthcoming about it when asked.

  8. #118
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    It's not the question that's baiting. It's the fact that he has an ulterior motive behind the question. I agree with you that the question is simple. A person would do damn near anything to save a loved one. I just think that asking a question like that with an ulterior motive is lame, especially when you aren't forthcoming about it when asked.



    i see no evidence of an ultierior motive. it seems a simple question to me. he may have an opinion he wants to hold onto for now, but thats hardley an ultierior motive.


    Matthew 10:34
    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

  9. #119
    Androgyne
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    i see no evidence of an ultierior motive. it seems a simple question to me. he may have an opinion he wants to hold onto for now, but thats hardley an ultierior motive.
    He even admitted that he "maybe" had an ulterior motive. Based on his comments I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that he does. It's in relation to the torture discussion in another thread. It doesn't matter what the topic would be, I think baiting to prove a point is lame. All of this could have been resolved in one post in the thread where the actual discussion is happening.

  10. #120
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    Re: Would You Utilize Torture to Save a Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    He even admitted that he "maybe" had an ulterior motive. Based on his comments I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that he does. It's in relation to the torture discussion in another thread. It doesn't matter what the topic would be, I think baiting to prove a point is lame. All of this could have been resolved in one post in the thread where the actual discussion is happening.


    so what?


    i didn't see you in oc's thread where he does the same thing to zimmer.... funny how that always works eh?




    Matthew 10:34
    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

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