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Waterboarding vs Sleep Deprivation

Which is worse

  • waterboarding

    Votes: 7 43.8%
  • sleep deprivation

    Votes: 9 56.3%

  • Total voters
    16
So what happens after "information" is wrought from them? Do they sit in a cell forever or get executed?

Well now that Obama has declared that even these things are torture I think there will be many more interrogated peoples who don't live to tell about it. I'm certainly not naive enough to believe the CIA will now stop short of anything but asking.
 
So what happens after "information" is wrought from them? Do they sit in a cell forever or get executed?
Since we don't want to torture them with perpetual incarceration, and since they're too eager to resume their terroristic ways should they be released, seems like the only humane thing left to do would be a quick painless execution.

At least that's not torture.;)
 
Feeling dead, whatever. For the record, I'm not against waterboarding or sleep deprivation, but I think my hallucinations could float me through the latter. Even if you get false information, you may have some way to check it and confirm its falseness, in which case you can pass on more torture. However, at least one of these methods has apparently helped prevent another attack, which is the important thing.

Sleep deprivation can cause a psychotic break and lower immune system. A relative break down of the entire bodily system. I'd rather have water poured on my head than attempt to float through days and days of no sleep with different folks screaming, yelling, hosing me with water, and slamming me into walls, or shackling me standing up all in the effort of depriving me of sleep.
 
Well, if they're terrorists, execution is an acceptable option.

And not all of them are. So what is an acceptable amount of sacrifice? The actual number that people are willing to accept.
 
Rev, you just don't get it man. Both are unacceptable methods of torture. Never mind that our military personnel frequently withstands these "agonizing" practices with relative ease. Never mind that lot's of them even volunteer to have it done. That doesn't matter! All that matters is people are made to be uncomfortable; that is beyond the pale! Anyway...

I've never been water-boarded so I have no real basis for comparison. However, I was the "victim" of sleep deprivation and became "extremely distressed" because of it. Obviously, I was tortured. Had I been given the chance though, I would have gone to SERE school where I would have been subjected to water-boarding. I'm sure it sucks, but then again, so do a lot of things. Now, if SERE school entailed having my fingernails pulled out with pliers or getting my testicles attached to a car battery it’s not an idea I would have entertained because that’s real torture.

Now if you were a murderous, terrorist scumbag in GITMO, you could sue.
 
I heard one of my friend saying that his babysitter tried the waterboarding once in his baby nephu, that cased him a slight brain damage and nightmares .
 
I would have to say Sleep Deprivation would be much worse because Waterboarding seems like it once its over, its over but if you dont get any sleep it does lead to some serious mental issues.
 
For me it would be sleep deprivation. Choosing it doesn't mean waterboarding isn't torture just not as damaging long term as sleep deprivation
 
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Its a known fact most prisoners will say what they think you want to hear. Its then up to the interrogator to process the information and ascertain fact from fiction. It can be used to great effect, if carried out correctly. I have been without sleep for at most 4.5 days which pushed me to the limit, i think the adrenaline kept me going.

Which would i deem worse? I suppose it depends on who was the interrogator, you have to presume they don't actually want to kill you so i guess it comes down to your personal "lesser of the two evils". for me probably water-boarding would be worse.

Paul
 
Personally, I have a sort of "immunity" from the effects sleep deprivation. Ever since I was a young kid, I haven't been sleeping properly, even today, I have to [sometimes] take sleeping pills to go to sleep. I'm not hyperactive, I'm perfectly calm, but I can remain awake for about 3 days, without the aid of stimulants, before I feel tired.

My parents were worried about me, so they took me to the doctors, the doctor tested my ability to focus, even after 3 days of no sleep, and found little to no decrease in focus. He tested me on my ability to read a passage, remember it, and recite it to him, my ability to do maths in my head, and dexterity exercises, such as placing this thing, in this hole, etc.

With that said, I can take sleep deprivation, but water-boarding just sounds brutal.
 
How much sleep deprivation?

Say your deprived of sleep for 36 hours, in that case, water-boarding would definitely be worse. However, say you were deprived of sleep for 6 days. In that case, the sleep deprivation would be worse.

The lengths to which some are going to in order to somehow argue that water boarding is not torture is really astounding. To me its fairly simple. If an act was used as torture during the Spanish Inquisition, then its torture. If individuals were tried for war crimes for engaging in this act, then its torture. If Khmer Rouge used it for torture, then its torture.

Why lower ourselves to the level of a Spanish Inquisitor? This notion that since it doesn't cause permanent harm it cannot be torture is the same kind of argument that the Maoists used during the Cultural Revolution when they put people in the jet plane position for hours and sometimes days on end.
 
How much sleep deprivation?

Say your deprived of sleep for 36 hours, in that case, water-boarding would definitely be worse. However, say you were deprived of sleep for 6 days. In that case, the sleep deprivation would be worse.

The lengths to which some are going to in order to somehow argue that water boarding is not torture is really astounding. To me its fairly simple. If an act was used as torture during the Spanish Inquisition, then its torture. If individuals were tried for war crimes for engaging in this act, then its torture. If Khmer Rouge used it for torture, then its torture.

Why lower ourselves to the level of a Spanish Inquisitor? This notion that since it doesn't cause permanent harm it cannot be torture is the same kind of argument that the Maoists used during the Cultural Revolution when they put people in the jet plane position for hours and sometimes days on end.




you do know that what the japanese did, was a little different right?


they poured salt water down your throat and jumped on your gut. a little different. lets stay honest in this discussion ok?
 
In high-schooland still occasionally I experience bouts of extreme insomnia, I loved it and hated it. I've gone 70+ hours with no sleep and also no drugs in my body, i.e. no meth, etc. Around the 24-30 hour mark my brain function would actually increase. I could do things faster, think clearer and came up with some really good ideas during those times. Approaching 40 hours my words start to come out jumbled, not like a drunk, but out of order sometimes. I would start to make jokes that seemed hilarious to me and just be in a general state of hysterics for the most part. 50 hours the physical aspect would start to kick in, blurry vision, muscle fatigue etc. During these times though I would rest my body but my mind would not be able to sleep. I made sure I drank plenty of water and did moderate exercise.

This time frame for the most part is during school weeks, weekends etc. So normal days. 60+ hours is visual and auditory hallucinations. I would be playing Counter-Strike in a darkened room at night, quit the game and go into another room and still see the silhouettes from the players as if they were in front of me. Real enough for me to take a fighting stance like someone had broken in my house. I would hear the gunfire from the game at random, 'Fire in the Hole' and look over my shoulder to see if a flash bang was coming in. At this point I was afraid to drive, I basically couldn't do anything. Edward Norton put it best in Fight Club, "With insomnia you're not really awake, and not really asleep" or something to that extent.

Anyways, those conditions are much, much, more easy to cope with than that of forced deprivation, i.e. water being thrown on you when you nod off, stress positions, for example being in a confined space where you can't stand up but can't lay down, or having to lean against a wall with your head pressed up against it, bent at the waist. So my vote goes for water boarding. I believe it would yield information faster, but may not have the same reliability for accurate information as sleep deprivation.

I heard some time back the British were having great success with an unusual technique. It involved putting the prisoner in a room of all one color. Lets say blue. Blue lighting, blue walls, blue everything, food, clothes etc. They would keep them in there and awake with limited amounts of sleep for a set time then move them to another colored room. Rinse repeat. I'm not sure of the psychology behind this one but it sounds interesting.
 
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In high-schooland still occasionally I experience bouts of extreme insomnia, I loved it and hated it. I've gone 70+ hours with no sleep and also no drugs in my body, i.e. no meth, etc. Around the 24-30 hour mark my brain function would actually increase. I could do things faster, think clearer and came up with some really good ideas during those times. Approaching 40 hours my words start to come out jumbled, not like a drunk, but out of order sometimes. I would start to make jokes that seemed hilarious to me and just be in a general state of hysterics for the most part. 50 hours the physical aspect would start to kick in, blurry vision, muscle fatigue etc. During these times though I would rest my body but my mind would not be able to sleep. I made sure I drank plenty of water and did moderate exercise.

This time frame for the most part is during school weeks, weekends etc. So normal days. 60+ hours is visual and auditory hallucinations. I would be playing Counter-Strike in a darkened room at night, quit the game and go into another room and still see the silhouettes from the players as if they were in front of me. Real enough for me to take a fighting stance like someone had broken in my house. I would hear the gunfire from the game at random, 'Fire in the Hole' and look over my shoulder to see if a flash bang was coming in. At this point I was afraid to drive, I basically couldn't do anything. Edward Norton put it best in Fight Club, "With insomnia you're not really awake, and not really asleep" or something to that extent.

Anyways, those conditions are much, much, more easy to cope with than that of forced deprivation, i.e. water being thrown on you when you nod off, stress positions, for example being in a confined space where you can't stand up but can't lay down, or having to lean against a wall with your head pressed up against it, bent at the waist. So my vote goes for water boarding. I believe it would yield information faster, but may not have the same reliability for accurate information as sleep deprivation.

I heard some time back the British were having great success with an unusual technique. It involved putting the prisoner in a room of all one color. Lets say blue. Blue lighting, blue walls, blue everything, food, clothes etc. They would keep them in there and awake with limited amounts of sleep for a set time then move them to another colored room. Rinse repeat. I'm not sure of the psychology behind this one but it sounds interesting.

Screw the weed... Sleep dep.. Where have you been all my life?! I want to battle fake counter-strike people down my hallway. One time I stayed up for 2 days playing Escape Velocity and when I closed my eyes for bed I could see the whole screen. Little stars zipping by as I went into warp speed.
 
Why not do both at the same time? Waterboarding AND Sleep Deprivation.
 
I experience sleep deprivation pretty much any time I go off my meds. I'm running on about two and a half days now. From previous experience, I'd say I have another five or six hours before I start hallucinating.


I wouldnt compare any self imposed sleep deprivation to its effects when used as a tool as torture.
 
Why not do both at the same time? Waterboarding AND Sleep Deprivation.

it is important to note that these techniques are applied in the context of a wider interogation. They dont just say "Okay dont let him speak for a week thens ee if he will talk". People are actively interogating you and probably using other torture techniques on you while any of these are applied.

I remember reading a novel written from the notes of a victim of a soviet show trial about his interogation. You can talk about how mild any of these techniques may sound from the outside. But when you are in the hot seat, none of this **** is mild.
 
Personally, I have a sort of "immunity" from the effects sleep deprivation. Ever since I was a young kid, I haven't been sleeping properly, even today, I have to [sometimes] take sleeping pills to go to sleep. I'm not hyperactive, I'm perfectly calm, but I can remain awake for about 3 days, without the aid of stimulants, before I feel tired.

My parents were worried about me, so they took me to the doctors, the doctor tested my ability to focus, even after 3 days of no sleep, and found little to no decrease in focus. He tested me on my ability to read a passage, remember it, and recite it to him, my ability to do maths in my head, and dexterity exercises, such as placing this thing, in this hole, etc.

With that said, I can take sleep deprivation, but water-boarding just sounds brutal.


This is the kind of nonsense im talking about.
Staying up for 3 days playing counterstrike is not comaprable to being awoken the second you start to drift off indefinately.
You are not immune to torture because you have slightly wierd sleeping patterns. You have a limit, and a torturer would find it.
 
I remember reading a novel written from the notes of a victim of a soviet show trial about his interogation. You can talk about how mild any of these techniques may sound from the outside. But when you are in the hot seat, none of this **** is mild.

I don't think I've claimed it is mild treatment. I'm not of the mind to treat enemy combatants mildly.
 
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