View Poll Results: Did we evolve from Apes?

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  • Yes, we evolved from Apes.

    71 53.38%
  • No, we have not evolved in any shape or form, we are the same biological beings we have always been.

    26 19.55%
  • Yes, we did evolve, but i do not think we evolved from Apes.

    36 27.07%
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Thread: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    If your Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Sihk, Athiest, Agnostic, whatever, i want to hear your opinions on Evolution. Did it occur? If so, are we the biologically enhanced version of Apes, changed over thousands of years of evolution? Or did it not happen at all. Does it have any scientific basis? Or did a being from a greater source place us here?

    Whats your opinions?
    I believe we evolved from a type of ape.

    There is a theory that the apes humans evolved from only did so because they started scavanging animal carcasses. The meat resulted in a protein surge in their diet and because their bodies didn't require all the extra protien, like a tiger does just to keep it's near 1000 lbs. going, it caused the apes' brains, over time, to increase in size and function. I don't really remember much more of it, though it did have something to do with the ability to also fend off predators. Of course a Theory is an educated guess and I'm not sure if I believe it either.

    I am a spiritual person but I don't believe in a god (though I do not fault anyone who does). Let's just say that what I believe is impossible to explain but easy to understand.
    “We must picture hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives with the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment.”
    ― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    I didn't make the argument that gravity proves evolution, you At no point did I say gravity necessitates evolution, you however claimed that gravity necessitates god.
    [quote ]
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Ikari
    There are ultimate tests for evolution seen directly through fossil and archeological recrods. Just like gravity, which you can not see, has tests to prove its existence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by justone
    There are ultimate tests for God seen directly through fossil and all the things around us. Just like gravity, which you can not see, has tests to prove its existence.
    . [/QUOTE]

    My claim was the same as yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    Because evolution is a large timescale dynamic captured by the fossil record. Do you wish to dispute the fossil record?
    I said - when the changes you were talking about were proven to happen, no fossils needed.
    The fossil record is easy to dispute,’’ a large timescale dynamic captured by the fossil record’’ is impossible to dispute as it is just a bunch of words I cannot make any meaning of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    Not at all, you used Descartes demon and I think it's a pointless defense.
    You are flattering me. I was not aware I did. Can you answer to Descartes if you have no respect for me?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    Descartes demon
    I made a statement. My statement can be either true or false. If unintentionally I repeated Descartes, I am flattered, still you have the only one choice - true or false. Instead you keep on dodging post after post, quote after quote, post after post, quote after quote.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    Part of your argument, less you wish to claim ignorance of the English language.
    Of course, you cannot quote me, because it is only your strawmen but not a part of “’my argument”’

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    I was referring to infinity. The value used for evaluation particularly for boundary conditions and such. It's well defined.
    OK. You were meaning infinity when you said quantum. OK.
    OK.
    Why you did not just say ‘’infinity’’?

    It is defined as the value used for evaluation particularly for boundary conditions and such? Boundary conditions are evaluation?
    I guess I have to dig for a couple of years to get a connected and relevant thought from you. You are spinning and dodging. Please answer: For evaluation of what? What kind of evaluation? For boundary conditions of what? What kind of conditions?

    It is the fallacy epitomized by W. C. Fields' quote: "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull."

    Identifying pseudoscience: 4. Use of obscurantist language, and misuse of apparently technical jargon in an effort to give claims the superficial trappings of science.
    Last edited by justone; 05-15-09 at 11:29 AM.

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    No. In fact, random vacuum fluctuations explain a great many of measured phenominon including Lamb shifts, zero point energy, etc. They are predicted through quantum mechanics and general relativity. To measure the effects of random vacuum fluctuations took precision experiments, the equipment for which wasn't around in full glory till well after the theory saying these things were possible came out. In fact, at first it was "allowable" but no one said they happened. They are allowed through brief periods of breaking energy conservation, or rather better though of as deriving their energy from the curvature of space. It was said this was allowed, it was said well if this is allowed it will have these affects. When those affects were measured, there was then proof of the dynamic.

    Again, you're asking me to choose between believing in you, a man with a obvious agenda and clear bias, or scientists...impartial and experts in fields well unknown by you. Sorry, but you're going to lose that one every time.
    I am not asking you to choose between. I asked you as an impartial expert to reply to my objections. I am not doing physics, but I am wondering what physics is doing now days. Instead you have ignored my objections and just have repeated your previous statement in other words plus more verbosity and ambiguity, proving only that you are no expert and no impartial. [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_verbosity]Proof by intimidation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    And please, please, can you have some mercy - the curvature of space is a geometrical concept, you cannot derive any physical energy from it, - I mean any child knows that. "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull."


    Identifying pseudoscience: 4. Use of obscurantist language, and misuse of apparently technical jargon in an effort to give claims the superficial trappings of science
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    Zero point energies, Lamb shift have been well measured. Other effects are continually being demonstrated in new experiments including electron-lattice interactions, electron mass renormalization, and high energy experiments in colliders. Continually refined, continually measured, continually scrutinized. Nothing to date has come up which would indicate that random vacuum fluctuations are as you say they are. Rather, all the data seems to say that the scientists have a good understanding of the phenomenon and all affects that it would cause are being measured and confirmed. So again...looks like the scientists win.
    OK you are not addressing my words. You are bringing in more and more new ‘’experiments’’ and terms omitting the one I questioned. [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_verbosity]Proof by intimidation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    Personal opinion backed by nothing but bias and bigotry. Prove it.
    Ok, you are getting really funny. Listen, I formulated the thesis, the one you are quoting. And then of course I posted the proof. Let me see what is your disproof, if any.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    Nothing but garbage. This is personal opinion and hatred thrown at science and progress. You don't understand fully the dynamics you're trying to rally against and can not come up with a coherent and scientific argument against it. Fail.
    No disproof, no refutation as usual, unless you want me to believe just your word that I don’t understand and you do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    Math for the sake of math can be confusing.
    What math for the sake of math are you talking about, and how in the world math can be confusing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    But we're not talking of that, we're talking of measurement. Measurement is beyond pretty math and philosophy, measurement is real.
    You are not running fever are you? Measurement is beyond math, so you measure in fossils and dynamics, but not in numbers and millimeters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    Science hasn't ended with Einstein, it has exploded since then. And all done in proper scientific form. Again, this is what it comes down to. You are a guy with an agenda, you have clear bigotry and bias towards science and progress. You rant and rave about how science is wrong. Science, on the other hand, has measurements (something you have not once presented...I have) and has results, measured. That's reality. You want me to believe your side even though you have offered nothing but semantics, poor philosophy, and unsubstantiated rantings. Einstein is not the end all to science, we have expanded knowledge far beyond what Einstein contributed. You seem sort of the plum pudding sort of fellow; I'm more of the quantum mechanically derived and measured sort of fellow. I'll take what is proven, not the rantings of a man with clear agenda against science.
    I thought you did not have time working on your PhD, how then you had time to type 148 words to say just 24?

    I have no other choice but to conclude from your contra-argument that after Einstein they abolished rules of science Einstein and all other before him were using. And that allowed science to explode. Would you be so kind to show me what was wrong with the old rules and post the new rules?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    And all done in proper scientific form. Science, has measurements and has results, measured. Measurement is beyond … math, measurement is real.
    You keep on repeating it… May be you were not running fever. Should I read it as the new rule which had replaced the old ones?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    I am a published physicist, you are not. You're a guy on the internet with a religious agenda to push and you're pissed off because I say keep religion and science separate. You are a guy with an agenda, you have clear bigotry and bias towards science and progress. That's all this comes down to. You're pissed because you can't demonstrate your points at all, but you want me to accept them as scientific and I refuse. My atoms tell me quantum mechanics works. BECs test the fundamental laws of quantum mechanics to see if they're true or not. My work in AMO is dominated by quantum effects and well explained by them. The dynamics and the theory match up. Nature always has the truth; we just have to be able to listen to what it has to say. Not rant and rave in closed minded bigotry because someone dared say something you don't like. That gets us nowhere, and humanity doesn't sit still. Stagnation is death.
    You are a published physicist, at least, you are published on DP, and you are an experimentalist - it took you only 6 posts and 3 days to see the pattern and to realize what was going on in spite of me even putting up a count in numbers, when there hardly were too many readers who did not understand what was going on from the beginning. Your atoms certainly took time before telling you the truth. They screwed you up. Was it the nature who told you that I was no published physicist or you just googled my name? As well I bet it didn’t take too much effort for some representatives of humanity even if they were not published physicists to realize what was my agenda as clearly as I stated it, as clearly as Tucker stated his, when your dynamics is still making you to stagnate in the same hole you are digging under yourself deeper and deeper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    Measured reality is measured reality and nothing you can say detracts from that. You have no measurement to back up your claims, I have well documented measurement to back up mine. From the Lamb Shift to Evolution, it's measured. We know it happened. We know things have changed. You're arguing stagnation, I'm arguing change. The data supports one of us...care to take a guess which one?
    The data support both of us. We just live in different realities. My reality is measured by numbers and uses mathematics when in your reality measurement is beyond math which is a demon or evil of some kind for you. For me mathematics brings clarity, for you it brings confusion. We both know that things have changed, but for you a change is digging a hole under yourself for 6 posts and 3 days, when I had just look back once in while to check the dynamics of your change and put up the numbers describing the dynamics as amount of words being a function of time. In spite of the fact that English is not my native language I do formulate my arguments in a clear, as simple as possible and a non-ambiguous way, so that not only Infinite Chaos who is not a scientist can hear, understand or question me, but even I myself start understanding things. I don’t know if Infinite Chaos hears from you anything but ‘’Puff…pufff..pufff… I am a published physicist… puff…pufff..pufff… electron mass renormalization… you are nobody…’’ and if you understand what you are saying. We are of totally different schools, of totally different realities. In my schools they would kill me and laugh over my dead body not only if I ever tried to pull puff…. puff… - that was out of question, but just for a wrong word, for exceeding speed of light instead of reaching speed of light.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    No it's not. I've had enough of your flippant philosophy and mindless rants against science and progress. You've backed up nothing you had to say, you refuse to acknowledge measurement, it's completely pointless.
    Silly. You could save time and effort just posting this paragraph. I guess you felt that after 3 says and 6 posts with over 2000 words you had to let me know that at last you got it and I could at last start reading? Well, this time you got it and I have read and the reading was entertaining.
    Last edited by justone; 05-15-09 at 11:34 AM.

  4. #504
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Source of images [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution"]Wikipedia - Timeline of human evolution[/ame]

    Last edited by Kernel Sanders; 05-19-09 at 09:39 PM.

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    I'm a lemur?

    Scientists find "Missing Link"? - RedCafe.net


    Oh nope. A lemur is my aunt.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I remain completely open to the idea that we may have been genetically interfered with by aliens. I find it hard to readily buy into the idea that there was a natural progression/evolution from ape to human sans interference of some sort.
    A little spice for your coolaid beverage. Image trying to get someone to go with your concept ,lets say, 60 years ago..."before spacemen",so to speak.

    Actualy yours is in many ways better than the evolution arguements. Bugs are perfect aliens.
    When I look at things in rocks, and compare them to liveing things, and they are absolutely unchanged over hundreds of millions of years, I see creation...
    I see man there. Man shows up complete, in the rock record, and there`s nothing yet available that says he was ever any different.

    A resent fossil was found, a 45 million year old quadruped, was said to be the missing link. They almost had me till I looked closer at the size 12, rear feet and noticed they were perfectly proportioned for a pair of Reboks. Oh then there were the hands, five fingers, 3 bones per finger,opposable thumbs, radius ,ulna.... It brought back memories of the dinosour with fethers, later found to be the work of "dremel". Evolutionists keep shooting off their their missing links.

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    If you'd ever met my brother, you'd totally believe we evolved from fur-bearing primates. My sister-in-law calls him her naughty little monkey.

    That's probably TMI, but frankly, I'm just happy I didn't inherit the fur in the family.

    In all seriousness, though, so much of human behavior can be explained because of our close relationship to primates...our tribalism, our violence, our obsessions about territorialism, our sexual habits.

    My life became a lot easier when I realized that we're just curious little monkeys with opposable thumbs, and that there wasn't any tampering from outside or divine involvement. We learn, we grow, we make mistakes, and sometimes, we fall back on instincts we don't even realize we have.

    Ain't nothing wrong with that.

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saboteur View Post
    I believe we evolved from a type of ape.

    There is a theory that the apes humans evolved from only did so because they started scavanging animal carcasses. The meat resulted in a protein surge in their diet and because their bodies didn't require all the extra protien, like a tiger does just to keep it's near 1000 lbs. going, it caused the apes' brains, over time, to increase in size and function. I don't really remember much more of it, though it did have something to do with the ability to also fend off predators. Of course a Theory is an educated guess and I'm not sure if I believe it either.

    I am a spiritual person but I don't believe in a god (though I do not fault anyone who does). Let's just say that what I believe is impossible to explain but easy to understand.
    Imagine how much resources would be used more efficiently if said scavenger ape learned to cook the carcasses instead of having to have their body process raw meat. I really think if we would feed monkies nothing but cooked meat you would see some sort of differences in them after a few generations.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Imagine how much resources would be used more efficiently if said scavenger ape learned to cook the carcasses instead of having to have their body process raw meat. I really think if we would feed monkies nothing but cooked meat you would see some sort of differences in them after a few generations.
    Yeah probably, some apes and monkeys do eat meat but it is raw. If humans really did evolve from scavangers they obviously learned to hunt and cook the meat as we do today.
    “We must picture hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives with the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment.”
    ― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Laughter evolved in primates 10m years ago | Science | guardian.co.uk
    The first hoots of laughter from an ancient ancestor of humans rippled across the land at least 10 million years ago, according to a study of giggling primates.

    Researchers used recordings of apes and babies being tickled to trace the origins of laughter back to the last common ancestor that humans shared with the modern great apes, which include chimpanzees, gorillas and orang-utans.

    The finding challenges the view that laughter is a uniquely human trait, suggesting instead that it emerged long before humans split from the evolutionary path that led to our primate cousins, between 10m and 16m years ago.

    "In humans, laughing is a complex and intriguing expression. It can be the strongest way of expressing how much we are enjoying ourselves, but it can also be used in other contexts, like mocking," said Marina Davila Ross, a psychologist at Portsmouth University. "I was interested in whether laughing had a pre-human basis, whether it emerged earlier on than we did."
    What came first? Laughter or humans?
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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