View Poll Results: Did we evolve from Apes?

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  • Yes, we evolved from Apes.

    71 53.38%
  • No, we have not evolved in any shape or form, we are the same biological beings we have always been.

    26 19.55%
  • Yes, we did evolve, but i do not think we evolved from Apes.

    36 27.07%
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Thread: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

  1. #441
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Actually, I've refused to put words in your mouth.

    I've repeatedly asked you to state your position.

    You've repeatedly refused.

    I've scanned the rest of your post, you've failed, again, to post your views on what you believe causes speciation.

    You've posted a lot of irrelevant gobbledy-gook, but you've not made a plain statement of belief.
    Thank you for proving my speculation regarding your fear correct.

  2. #442
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    You must have missed the part where I pointed out that the savannah left the chimps, the chimps didn't leave the savannah.
    Your reading comprehension has failed, I suggest you re-read what I wrote because it's apparent that you don't even know what my argument is.

    I have not claimed that the chimps followed to the Savannah. Read it again.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  3. #443
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Your reading comprehension has failed
    His "hyper-intelligence" means understanding what he reads is, like, totally beneath him, gawd!


  4. #444
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    His "hyper-intelligence" means understanding what he reads is, like, totally beneath him, gawd!

    hyper-intelligence like in ADD, yea.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  5. #445
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    I've been thinking about this since this thread started. At the risk of being called an idiot, an ignorant redneck, and so on, I'm going to spell out my exact beliefs on this subject for anyone who cares to know.

    There are many possible approaches to the question of origins. I think it divides primarily into two divisions:

    1. A method that excludes any consideration of God, declines to entertain any speculation on a Creator, and assumes all events and processes are the result of "natural" phenomena, environmental pressures, random chance, etc. No allowance for any sort of guiding intelligence whatsoever.

    2. Beginning with the assumption of a creator God, or at least an allowance for the possiblity of such a being's existence and involvement.

    If you do not believe in God at all, and refuse to entertain the possibility of God's existence, then you will probably consider me a fool and might as well skip the rest of the post. If you are fully in the "position 1" school of thought, you will probably believe the theory of evolution is the only logical explantion and be incredulous that anyone but a fool might think otherwise. I am not a fool (my IQ is 125), nor am I ignorant (college educated in a technical field), but I do not believe in an evolution whose guiding principle is random chance and blind nature.

    In these sorts of discussions, I often hear arguments saying "How could God have _____, that's against the laws of thermodynamics!", "God could not have _________, because radiocarbon decays at Y rate and..."

    The problem with these arguments, IMO, is they assume a very small and weak "god", who is bound by the laws of physics.

    What is God, in concept? I conceive of a Creator God thus:
    A being whose existence is beyond space and time, eternal and infinite.
    A being as far beyond our level of existence as we are beyond an ant.
    A being who created, not merely the Earth, but the Universe...who set Time in motion, who created the laws of physics and is therefore not bound by them. He was here before the Universe and will be here after it is gone.
    A being, in sum, who is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnisapient.
    Time, Space and the supposed "laws" of physics dance in the palm of his hand at his whim.
    God's only true constraints are his own Will, and his own Word.

    Scientists, excluding God from their conclusions, look at the fossil record and geological strata and say, "all this took 4.5 billion years, through natural processes and random chance."
    I imagine God looking over their shoulder, smiling, and saying "Well, it was only six days to me, but Time is just another tool in my toolbox."

    I don't claim to understand all the details. It is simply that the God I believe in is a "Big God", and the capacity to do all these things I call "creation" and scientists call "evolution" does not strain my belief at all.

    I don't get overly excited, worrying about "young Earth" vs "Old Earth" or "Intelligent Design" vs "Creationism", or whether the "six days" were literal or symbolic. Regardless of the method, or the time scale, I know who was in control throughout the process.... because I begin from the position of believing in a God who could do all these things in whatever manner suited him.

    My position is based on a belief. I consider the first position, the position of naturalistic random evolution excluding a Creator, is also a belief system...because, just as my belief begins with the assumption of God's existence, secular evolutionism also begins with an assumption: the assumption that "there is no God" or that God was not involved in the origins and development of the existing world.

    I don't expect my position to be well-received among most of the people posting in this thread, and that is fine. I felt the need to spell it out and did so; if you wish to call me a fool for what I believe then so be it.

    G.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
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  6. #446
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I've been thinking about this since this thread started. At the risk of being called an idiot, an ignorant redneck, and so on, I'm going to spell out my exact beliefs on this subject for anyone who cares to know.

    There are many possible approaches to the question of origins. I think it divides primarily into two divisions:
    I think this is your own personal dichotomy... No point in trying to expanding it into anything greater than that.

    1. A method that excludes any consideration of God, declines to entertain any speculation on a Creator, and assumes all events and processes are the result of "natural" phenomena, environmental pressures, random chance, etc. No allowance for any sort of guiding intelligence whatsoever.
    Perhaps saying that all events and processes are results of natural phenomena, environmental processes is an assumption, but it's a totally unchallenged one at this point, and no more of a stretch of the imagination than assuming that the sun will rise in the morning.

    2. Beginning with the assumption of a creator God, or at least an allowance for the possiblity of such a being's existence and involvement.
    I certainly allow for the possibility of such a beings existence, but I don't feel quite at home in this group... Doesn't feel like a very fair dichotomy to me.

    I do not believe in an evolution whose guiding principle is random chance and blind nature.
    Why not?


    Scientists, excluding God from their conclusions
    If they included God in their calculations, they wouldn't be scientists, they'd be theologians... God's not particularly scientific at this point.

    I imagine God looking over their shoulder, smiling, and saying "Well, it was only six days to me, but Time is just another tool in my toolbox."
    Why do you imagine this?


    I don't get overly excited, worrying about "young Earth" vs "Old Earth" or "Intelligent Design" vs "Creationism", or whether the "six days" were literal or symbolic. Regardless of the method, or the time scale, I know who was in control throughout the process.... because I begin from the position of believing in a God who could do all these things in whatever manner suited him.
    I understand the nature of the God you believe in, and His powers. But how do you know this; that is, why do you feel you know this; that is, from whence does your faith, your beliefs, stem?

    I'm not attacking your belief or anything, I'm just curious.

    My position is based on a belief. I consider the first position, the position of naturalistic random evolution excluding a Creator, is also a belief system...because, just as my belief begins with the assumption of God's existence, secular evolutionism also begins with an assumption: the assumption that "there is no God" or that God was not involved in the origins and development of the existing world.
    It seems foolhardy to equate the assumption that there is a God and He created all that there is with the assumption that things progressed the way they did based on this evidence we see here and this evidence we see here.

    I'll get into this bit more, but it's dinnertime, and dinnertime waits for no student. Except those with Ramen.


    Duke
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  7. #447
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin
    I do not believe in an evolution whose guiding principle is random chance and blind nature.
    Why not?
    Because I look at the incredible interconnected complexity of the world around me and see purpose, not chance. It's a matter of perspective, and if you don't see it that way, I don't see how I can make you understand why I do. If you don't... well, you don't. To me it seems very obvious.


    I understand the nature of the God you believe in, and His powers. But how do you know this; that is, why do you feel you know this; that is, from whence does your faith, your beliefs, stem?

    I'm not attacking your belief or anything, I'm just curious.
    My belief, my faith, is something that has grown over the course of a lifetime. Explaining why I have that faith would take a lifetime to tell, in full. In brief, I have experienced far too many things in life that cause me to believe there has to be a God; and many years of reading the Bible, being an observer of human nature, and of life and history, nature and so much more, led me to the conclusion that God is the God of the Bible. I've experienced things that demand these conclusions. Trying to explain it is a bit like trying to explain love to someone who has never felt it. I cannot prove it scientifically as it is not a scientific issue, but rather a spiritual and personal issue.


    It seems foolhardy to equate the assumption that there is a God and He created all that there is with the assumption that things progressed the way they did based on this evidence we see here and this evidence we see here
    If you were viewing the issue from my perspective you might think otherwise. From within the context of my own life-experiences, I find the existence and omnipresence of God as self-evident as the rising of the sun. If you don't, then fair enough, you just don't.

    If you don't share my beliefs, then you don't.... my beliefs do not require you to agree, don't depend on anyone else's agreement, don't sway because someone questions or ridicules them, or because the majority feels otherwise.

    I felt a spiritual conviction to express my beliefs on this subject; I have done so. I don't necessarily expect anyone to openly agree with me, since few will risk the ridicule that usually follows from those holding to "position 1".

    For the politeness and courtesy of your response, Duke, I thank you. It was a better reaction than I expected to encounter.

    G.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  8. #448
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Thank you for proving my speculation regarding your fear correct.
    Then again, I'm merely waiting for you, or even any other fool rejecting the proven science of evolution, to state what they do believe happened.

    You have some moral objection to posting jokes or something?

  9. #449
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Your reading comprehension has failed, I suggest you re-read what I wrote because it's apparent that you don't even know what my argument is.

    I have not claimed that the chimps followed to the Savannah. Read it again.
    Yes, you need reading training.

    I didn't say you said the chimps followed anything.

    I'd say read it again and you'll figure it out, but you won't.

    But read it again, anyway, you've got nothing better to do, obviously.

  10. #450
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I've been thinking about this since this thread started. At the risk of being called an idiot, an ignorant redneck, and so on, I'm going to spell out my exact beliefs on this subject for anyone who cares to know.
    The problem with your position being merely one:

    You don't have a shred of evidence to support it. It's a feeling that rejects solidly grounded research in exchange for personal emotional satisfaction.

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