View Poll Results: Did we evolve from Apes?

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  • Yes, we evolved from Apes.

    71 53.38%
  • No, we have not evolved in any shape or form, we are the same biological beings we have always been.

    26 19.55%
  • Yes, we did evolve, but i do not think we evolved from Apes.

    36 27.07%
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Thread: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

  1. #31
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    1. Are we quite certain the process is evolution and not devolution?
    Devolution? Your either suggesting we used to be far more advanced life forms with no sense to keep some kind of record of how we used to be, or your suggesting apes are more intelligent then us.

    On the contrary, there is an interesting point i see being made regularly; if we evolved from apes, how comes they are still around? My answer would be we didnt evolve from the things we know as "apes" today, but a type of species of apes, a seperate branch of ape that was similar but quiet not the same. Naturally, those same beings no longer exist in that form, but do so as us; humanoids.

    So, my answer is; Yes, we did evolve, but not from apes, under the pretex the term "ape" is referenced to what we know as an ape today.
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    Re: Read the article, a theory is not a guess

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Do you have a counter argument to the fact that a theory is "so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them"?
    Yeah I do have a counter-argument and that would be the number of theories that have been since rejected, revised, etc.

    That's the importance of the "is likely" bit. No scientist would declare a theory to be fact. It is a guess, an interpretation, and explanation. It is a very good one, a very solid one, one with merit in order for it to be a scientific theory, but still at the end of the day you are dealing with a guess which is quite different from a fact.

    For example the theory WAS that we evolved from tree dwelling apes. That has now been revised to we've evolved from a ground dwelling ape.

    In no way is a theory "an educated guess," it is not a guess at all. That is what the word "theory" means in everyday language. Its an explanation, not just an interpretation of the facts.
    Yes it is. You take issue with the word guess. But anytime you "interpret" data to "construct" an explanation you are making a guess. Of course there are degrees of soundness in guessing and scientific theories are incredibly educated guesses but they are still more in line with "expectations," vs fact.
    Which is why they may need to later be revised, tweaked, or tossed all together.

    You need to get the notion that theories are guesses or interpretations out of your mind, that and the idea that the NAS's position more closely represents yours than mine. What you did was ignore EVERYTHING I said to you, picked one thing I said to someone else out of context, and claim that I have failed to define "theory" adequately.
    You need to get the notion that guess, interpretation, expectation, etc are bad words when it comes to scientific theory.

    When you interpret data and then CONSTRUCT a theory based on the facts and observations you are absolutely making an educated guess and asserting an expectation to be put forth as an explanation.

    When in fact, you didn't reply to the proper definitions. Do yourself a favor, stop revealing your ignorance about scientific terminology and read the articles; Educate yourself. No one here is making "an overstatement of how sound and concrete a theory is."

    Evolution is as true as gravity.
    I realize the difference between a scientific theory and the term theory in general. However I accept that the difference is in the rigor and research that goes into developing a scientific theory and not that the "theory" is more factual when it's scientific.

    Scientific theories are NOT facts, no scientist would call them facts, and while they likely may not change they also very well may change in the face of new evidence. They are not law.

  3. #33
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I remain completely open to the idea that we may have been genetically interfered with by aliens. I find it hard to readily buy into the idea that there was a natural progression/evolution from ape to human sans interference of some sort.
    Who made the aliens?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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  4. #34
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    You do realize you can believe in evolution while also questioning a common ancestor between apes and men?

    No, not really you can't.

    Chimps, bonobos, humans, gorillas, all had a common ancestor. The line of descendants that ancestor threw off eventually threw off other species. This can be seen in the morphology of the above animals, and it can be seen in their DNA.

    It's what evolution says has to have happened, and it's what the evidence shows. If someone can't accept the fact of species divergence, then they can't credibly claim to accept evolution, because they clearly don't understand it.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 04-19-09 at 05:41 PM.

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    1. Humans did not evolve from apes. Apes and humans share common ancestry.
    2. Are we quite certain the process is evolution and not devolution?
    Kinda depends on the definition of the word "ape".

    If by "ape" the person means only those species of animal alive today, then no, one can honestly say humans didn't evolve from apes.

    I use the word "ape" to mean "something like an ape". Which is recursive, but who cares, since the people who think humans didn't evolve from ape-like ancestors aren't smart enough to catch the logical flaw anyway.

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    No, not really you can't.

    Chimps, bonobos, humans, gorillas, all had a common ancestor. The line of descendants that ancestor threw off eventually threw off other species. This can be seen in the morphology of the above animals, and it can be seen in their DNA.

    It's what evolution says has to have happened, and it's what the evidence shows. If someone can't accept the fact of species divergence, then they can't credibly claim to accept evolution, because they clearly don't understand it.
    So you're saying I have to believe in an unknown common ancestor between chimps and humans or throw every ounce of evolution theory out the window.

    Somehow I doubt that.

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    If your Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Sihk, Athiest, Agnostic, whatever, i want to hear your opinions on Evolution. Did it occur? If so, are we the biologically enhanced version of Apes, changed over thousands of years of evolution? Or did it not happen at all. Does it have any scientific basis? Or did a being from a greater source place us here?

    Whats your opinions?
    It is my personal theory that Earth had visitors long ago who genetically altered the apes to create humans.

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    So you're saying I have to believe in an unknown common ancestor between chimps and humans or throw every ounce of evolution theory out the window.

    Somehow I doubt that.
    Just because we don't have its fossils does not mean we do not have the genetic evidence. Read the article.
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    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Who made the aliens?
    How the hell would I know what's at the top of the ladder when I'm only a couple rungs from the bottom?

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    Re: Read the article, a theory is not a guess

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Yeah I do have a counter-argument and that would be the number of theories that have been since rejected, revised, etc.
    What exactly is this an argument against? The fact that science changes its views when faced with new evidence, and discards old theories that are proven false is a credit to the validity of scientific theories.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    That's the importance of the "is likely" bit. No scientist would declare a theory to be fact. It is a guess, an interpretation, and explanation. It is a very good one, a very solid one, one with merit in order for it to be a scientific theory, but still at the end of the day you are dealing with a guess which is quite different from a fact.

    For example the theory WAS that we evolved from tree dwelling apes. That has now been revised to we've evolved from a ground dwelling ape.

    Yes it is. You take issue with the word guess. But anytime you "interpret" data to "construct" an explanation you are making a guess. Of course there are degrees of soundness in guessing and scientific theories are incredibly educated guesses but they are still more in line with "expectations," vs fact.
    Which is why they may need to later be revised, tweaked, or tossed all together.

    You need to get the notion that guess, interpretation, expectation, etc are bad words when it comes to scientific theory.

    When you interpret data and then CONSTRUCT a theory based on the facts and observations you are absolutely making an educated guess and asserting an expectation to be put forth as an explanation.

    I realize the difference between a scientific theory and the term theory in general. However I accept that the difference is in the rigor and research that goes into developing a scientific theory and not that the "theory" is more factual when it's scientific.
    This has nothing to do with what I like, by definition a scientific theory is not a guess. See the link and quote I provided in post #29

    It is you who has a problem with scientific terminology, science is NOT guesswork.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Scientific theories are NOT facts, no scientist would call them facts, and while they likely may not change they also very well may change in the face of new evidence. They are not law.
    You do realize that laws and theories address different things don't you? And that NO amount of confirmation can ever make a theory a law right? Oh wait you don't.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 04-19-09 at 05:55 PM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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