View Poll Results: Did we evolve from Apes?

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  • Yes, we evolved from Apes.

    71 53.38%
  • No, we have not evolved in any shape or form, we are the same biological beings we have always been.

    26 19.55%
  • Yes, we did evolve, but i do not think we evolved from Apes.

    36 27.07%
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Thread: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

  1. #191
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    Nice talking, but if that is true (We had'nt all evolved together) that mean that we are Attesting an evolution in Apes species to a primitive man right now, which is not happening .
    I'm really not sure what you mean here. The current apes are not facing the same resource-related issues that our ancestors faced; they have more or less what they need. There is no pressure on their populations that would make them evolve into a higher-thinking creature, the way there was for ours. Or, the mutation that might give some of the apes an advantage has not occurred.

    I'm not sure if that's what you are asking, it would be helpful if you could clarify it for me.


    Duke
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  2. #192
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    I'm really not sure what you mean here. The current apes are not facing the same resource-related issues that our ancestors faced; they have more or less what they need. There is no pressure on their populations that would make them evolve into a higher-thinking creature, the way there was for ours. Or, the mutation that might give some of the apes an advantage has not occurred.

    I'm not sure if that's what you are asking, it would be helpful if you could clarify it for me.


    Duke
    That was exactly what I was asking about ..
    But am really wondering why had evolution stop not in Apes only, in other creatures, its like going down the stairs after going up, evolution then extinction ..

  3. #193
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    That was exactly what I was asking about ..
    But am really wondering why had evolution stop not in Apes only, in other creatures, its like going down the stairs after going up, evolution then extinction ..
    Evolution is a complex process that never exactly stops. A species may not appear to be evolving at one point; in fact, the genetic makeup of some species has not changed significantly for many thousands of years. Very simplistic organisms have lived in the same ecosystems, the same way, using the same resources and being preyed upon similarly for long periods of time also. If this situation is stable, and certain genetic makeups are not being favored by natural selection in this species, evolution will not take place.

    We cannot see the exact evolutionary pressures that were put on our early ancestors. However, by looking at our own attributes that stem from our genes and our evolution, we can make good guesses as to why we evolved to where we are now. For example, apes that mutated to have developed hands and convenient opposable thumbs may have had a leg up on the other apes. An ape with a mutation that increased the brainpower of an ape, allowing it the cognitive processes to use its hands to use tools would also have an advantage over its fellow apes, and it would reproduce more, spreading this mutation. As arms became more important, apes that could walk on two legs were favored. The myriad of influences and interactions that lead to a species' development over millions of years is never simple to explain or demonstrate, but I'll try to answer your questions the best I can.


    Duke
    The big majority of Americans, who are comparatively well off, have developed an ability to have enclaves of people living in the greatest misery without almost noticing them.
    -- Gunnar Myrdal


    The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
    -- Henry Kissinger


    Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no
    account be allowed to do the job.
    -- Douglas Adams

  4. #194
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    Evolution is a complex process that never exactly stops. A species may not appear to be evolving at one point; in fact, the genetic makeup of some species has not changed significantly for many thousands of years. Very simplistic organisms have lived in the same ecosystems, the same way, using the same resources and being preyed upon similarly for long periods of time also. If this situation is stable, and certain genetic makeups are not being favored by natural selection in this species, evolution will not take place.

    We cannot see the exact evolutionary pressures that were put on our early ancestors. However, by looking at our own attributes that stem from our genes and our evolution, we can make good guesses as to why we evolved to where we are now. For example, apes that mutated to have developed hands and convenient opposable thumbs may have had a leg up on the other apes. An ape with a mutation that increased the brainpower of an ape, allowing it the cognitive processes to use its hands to use tools would also have an advantage over its fellow apes, and it would reproduce more, spreading this mutation. As arms became more important, apes that could walk on two legs were favored. The myriad of influences and interactions that lead to a species' development over millions of years is never simple to explain or demonstrate, but I'll try to answer your questions the best I can.


    Duke
    Thanks alot Duke, thats so useful ..
    Dude you memorized me with high school days, damn biology

  5. #195
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    Thanks alot Duke, thats so useful ..
    Dude you memorized me with high school days, damn biology
    Ha ha yeah, just so happened to be my favorite science class! Though I'm sure you figured that out by now.


    Duke
    The big majority of Americans, who are comparatively well off, have developed an ability to have enclaves of people living in the greatest misery without almost noticing them.
    -- Gunnar Myrdal


    The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
    -- Henry Kissinger


    Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no
    account be allowed to do the job.
    -- Douglas Adams

  6. #196
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    Ha ha yeah, just so happened to be my favorite science class! Though I'm sure you figured that out by now.


    Duke
    No and Never !!

  7. #197
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    No and Never !!
    Ahmed, i thought you was muslim and was expecting you to turn to creationism? Do you believe the process of evolution is currently happening all the time and has happened to us in the past?
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  8. #198
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    We evolved from Wolves.
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

  9. #199
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    What's most interesting to me about these evolution debates online is the frequent flipping back and forth between the ideas of creationism and intelligent design. Very often those who refuse to accept evolution will make arguments for both... with little or no understanding of the difference. Thus terms such as evolutionist and Darwinist get tossed around in vitriolic fits with little or no meaning.



    Grateful Heart, if you decide to undertake another attempt to disprove the fact proven in a series of experiments - that evolutionists cannot understand simple sentences, cannot understand and answer simple questions and, - in the same way as Darwin, - are incapable of basic arithmetic, then you can address me as a creationist, an Intelligent Designer or simply an intelligent, as a X-ian, neocon or SOB. And then I may decide to explain you the difference between all the above in simple sentences. So far your meaningless and irrelevant lament just adds to my proof that evolutionists and/or Darwinists are incapable of maintaining an intelligent conversation not even speaking about understanding an intelligent design.

  10. #200
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    More accurately, Einstein said that Relativity "Quantitatively... made little modification in Newton's theory, but qualitatively a deep-seated one." And that Relativity "may be conceived as an organic development of Newton's thought." .
    The degree of accuracy often depends on the task at hand. The task was not to quote Einstein for the simple reason that evolutionists do not understand simple sentences. The task was to try to explain simple sentences in the words that possibly could be accessible to evolutionists.

    Would an evolutionist understand what does mean "Quantitatively... made little modification in Newton's theory, but qualitatively a deep-seated one."? No way.

    If you wish to compete in accuracy, let me know…


    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I agree that it was an advancement of Newton's work. .
    More accurately,it made it quote more accurate and liable to exceptions end of quote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    It didn't demolish them as was said (to clarify: when I said "well said", I was referring to the point that was being made about the presumption of truth that people have regarding evolution. .

    Next time do not include in the quote things which are not well said when you say ‘’well said’’ under the quote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The presumption should be that the theory is falsifiable. .

    You have not noticed how I characterized the rest of the post, have you? Why? Or may be you have ignored an indivisible part of my proof?


    You also put your signature under the statement ‘’Scientific theories are not verifiable; they are only falsifiable. Newton's iron laws, for example, were "verified" for hundreds of years’’
    You see I have told you that this is what they teach you everywhere. This is the danger, the damage evolutionists inflict on young brains. You see, Commi is a good man and he has a good personality and good brains. Evolutionists did not damage his brains but turned it completely up side down. Commi and you just agreed on some positions of scientific method I was lucky never been forced upon in my young years.

    Atheists have invented and called it scientific method to brainwash you and inflict a permanent damage on your brain . They start feeding it to you in schools, then in colleges, then… step by step.. How do you, guys swallow this delirium? What is verification, what is falsification? I could never understand…

    Appendices: III The Experimental Confirmation of the General Theory of Relativity. Einstein. Relativity: The Special and General Theory. TRANSLATED BY ROBERT W. LAWSON NEW YORK: HENRY HOLT, 1920

    Experimental Confirmation is the verification. TOR was verified at the moment it was published. If you wish accuracy :
    ‘’up to the present we have been able to find only a few deductions from the general theory of relativity which are capable of investigation, and to which the physics of pre-relativity days does not also lead’’.
    Einstein. Relativity: The Special and General Theory. TRANSLATED BY ROBERT W. LAWSON NEW YORK: HENRY HOLT, 1920

    (Where did you get your quotes?)

    As well all Newton’s theories were verifiable upon publication of Philosophia Naturalis Principia Mathematica. What I am telling you is not opposite to the absurd atheists tell you, their absurd has no relevancy because ‘’atheistic idea is such an absurd that I cannot express it in words’’ as Kelvin used to say. Moreover, a theory- if it is scientific -gets put in immediate use, such as – if in classical mechanics- in calculations of positions of celestial bodies in space and time as we observe them staring at them through telescopes. Look at these theories as we use them everyday: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Theory-Machines-Mechanisms-John-Uicker/dp/019515598X]Amazon.com: Theory of Machines and Mechanisms: John J. Uicker, Gordon R. Pennock, the late Joseph E. Shigley: Books[/ame]


    [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Theory-Wing-Sections-Including-Summary/dp/0486605868/]Amazon.com: Theory of Wing Sections: Including a Summary of Airfoil Data (Dover Books on Physics): Ira H. Abbott, A. E. von Doenhoff: Books[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Theoretical-Hydrodynamics-L-M-Milne-Thomson/dp/0486689700/]Amazon.com: Theoretical Hydrodynamics: L. M. Milne-Thomson: Books[/ame]

    and try to ‘’falsify ’’ them, or to ‘’falsify ’’ Newton’s Philosophia Naturalis Principia Mathematica aka Newton’s laws of motion or Einstein. Relativity: The Special and General Theory. TRANSLATED BY ROBERT W. LAWSON NEW YORK: HENRY HOLT, 1920
    Give it a shot. You see? You are a smart man you don’t have to play a poo all the time. You have to accept that atheism can happen only in a few types of brains – either in undeveloped ones or in damaged ones, or in ones which are turned upside down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I was not referring to the irrelevant detail regarding Einstein and Newton because, well, it's accuracy was irrelevant. The point was still clear regardless of the accuracy of that detail. .
    First you want to be MORE accurate, then you say accuracy was irrelevant … God is in details. Accuracy of following rules of science has 2 qualities – either you follow or you don’t. And that is very relevant if you ever discuss anything from POV of science.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    And the point is that nothing should be regarded as "truth" while knowledge is still incomplete) .
    I cannot recognize a thought here. I hope you don’t take drugs as many atheists do. What are you talking about? It is an indivisible property of humans – not to have a complete knowledge. Humans as species are characterized as ones not having a complete knowledge. This truth comes from all experiments and experience of humanity, not even mentioning that these experiments and experience of humanity just confirm the truth of the Bible. Science itself exists only due to the incompleteness of knowledge and Science itself maintains incompleteness of knowledge.

    Science does not seek ‘’truth’. It is you who does. It is you who finds.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    As far as Poincare goes, I, too, am a huge fan of his work. .

    I am sorry, but I have difficulties to believe you. Poincare, for instance, was telling you that even a hypotheses (not even speaking about a theory) ‘’should be verified at the first opportunity and it should be verified as often as ever possible’’ (he had a specific meaning and service for a hypotheses). As well in my view there are other huge differences between his views and yours as I can see them, he would agree with me that science does not seek the truth, but you do. Still, I am glad to see you in the club. I have some disagreements with him, too.


    BTW Atheists often say also that Euclid’s geometry was wrong or had mistakes or was not advanced enough, - Poincare says that it is the same absurd as all other atheistic ideas, - let me translate it by memory, - ‘’one geometry cannot be more true than another one, - yes it may be more convenient [for a specific task] – but not more true’’. I am not even sure that this text is available in English. In the same way Relativity cannot be more true than Newton’s Principia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    He is well-known to mathematicians and physicists, .
    It may be so, but, - like everything else, - he is not known to evolutionists who live by fantasies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    but he deserves far more recognition than he gets in general discussion when discussing the most brilliant minds of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, especially when discussing relativity. .
    Well said Tucker!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The point that was beng made and affirmed as a good one by me was that we shouldn't assume that evolution is written-in-stone "fact". Nor should it be assumed to be written-in-stone "fantasy".
    It should be viewed as a scientific theory and, thus, it should be considered falsifiable. As it stands, it may or it may not be accurate..

    It is a declaration, a blind belief of yours, it is an assumption of yours - because you are ignorant of or you are ignoring the tools which allow to avoid such an assumption.

    There are tools, sure ways, litmus tests which would indicate exactly if it is a fantasy or a scientific theory. I have been using one of them – the easiest one and the first one required. A theory either follows rules of science or it does not. The rules are very simple and they all including. That’s all. Evolution does not pass the test. That’s all. From POV of science evolution is a fantasy. And as I have demonstrated each evolutionist has his own personal fantasy. However attractive and logical it looks to you meeting your personal taste and your personal logical abilities, from POV of science it is a ‘’written-in-stone "fantasy".”
    Last edited by justone; 04-23-09 at 09:29 PM.

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