View Poll Results: Did we evolve from Apes?

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  • Yes, we evolved from Apes.

    71 53.38%
  • No, we have not evolved in any shape or form, we are the same biological beings we have always been.

    26 19.55%
  • Yes, we did evolve, but i do not think we evolved from Apes.

    36 27.07%
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Thread: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

  1. #161
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Then it's not an intelligent designer, it's retarded fumbler, working blindly with no pre-established goal in mind, and is thus completely indistinguishable from evolution by natural selection, and by Occam's Razor an irrelevant unnecessary complication, and as such should be discarded.



    Actually, I did.

    In the fish, it swoops down to operate gills or whatever it is that it does in fish, and in fish it's perfectly sensible for the nerve to be where it is. Because humans (and all non-fish vertebrates) evolved from fish, that nerve has been distorted from it's original optimal fishy function.
    Because evolution works with what it has. It doesn't intelligently optimize anything. If a modification works and the animal survives to make little animals, the evolutionary modification is a success and will be retained.
    No. I answered the "why". The answer is because our ancestors were fish.

    Whatever that means.

    You think matters of "stagnation" are significant to a blind process that only selects for what works in the here and now, and has no interest in the optimal because it's not an intelligent process, merely a statistical one?
    It worked for fish.

    That counts as a "why".
    ID is nonsense, as I've shown.
    The vermiform appendix in humans is the relic of our ancestral past as animals that needed to ferment volumes of leafy substances. In humans it serves as a receptacle for bacteria and waste that has the unpleasant habit of swelling and exploding, and which killed up to 20% of the population in pre-medical times. Wonderful intelligent design, that, eh?
    I think life is perfect. It HAS perfectly met to what is around it as much as it could at the time. Just take a look outside and you will see that every single tree is perfect in accordance to what was put in front of it. In a world with nothing to consider in what a tree has to do to be perfect it in fact would be perfect. So now perfect is having a fencepost in the middle of your trunk and NOT being symmetrical.

    Perfect is doing exactly what it was meant to do and nothing more/less. And evolution is the imperfect thing surviving and becoming perfect while all the old versions die.
    Last edited by dirtpoorchris; 04-21-09 at 03:49 PM.
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  2. #162
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It is irrational to even ask for proof supporting or falsifying Creationism since Creationism does not conform to the scientific method and is not a scientific theory in the least.
    Had there not been a claim that Creationism has been disproven, I would not have asked.

    But, such a claim was made, so...

  3. #163
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I find it hard to readily buy into the idea that there was a natural progression/evolution from ape to human sans interference of some sort.

    Why do you find that hard to believe?

    Some think that humans, for all of our dubious accomplishments, must have been precipitated by a force greater than genetic change over time (In God's image, et cetera). I don't see how or why we would be given any special dispensation.


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  4. #164
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Had there not been a claim that Creationism has been disproven, I would not have asked.

    But, such a claim was made, so...
    That claim is equally irrational.

    It is precisely because Creationism can not be falsified that Creationism is not a scientific theory. Since it is not a scientific theory, one can't claim that it has been disproved.

  5. #165
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That claim is equally irrational.

    It is precisely because Creationism can not be falsified that Creationism is not a scientific theory. Since it is not a scientific theory, one can't claim that it has been disproved.
    You can't say it is disproved... Just not a theory. It is instead an instinct. Or a theory only provable by death. And even that isn't a fact.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

  6. #166
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That claim is equally irrational.
    It is precisely because Creationism can not be falsified that Creationism is not a scientific theory. Since it is not a scientific theory, one can't claim that it has been disproved.
    Yes, I know.
    But there are clearly people here that believe it -has- been disproven.

  7. #167
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    You can't say it is disproved... Just not a theory. It is instead an instinct. Or a theory only provable by death. And even that isn't a fact.
    I agree. We can simply say that it's not a theory and offer personal speculation from there.

    If we are discussing valid scientific theories then we are automatically excluding Creationism by default.

  8. #168
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Thank you. It is not like there are too many evolutionists who would be willing to try to understand a simple question. But you prove that there are a few exclusions. I don’t know for how long you can last yet, but at least you have made an unusual effort.

    First of all I have to talk you to a simple understanding that I need one, justone link, not 2, not 3, not many – justone link would be enough for me to reconsider my view. As a rule evolutionists are not good with arithmetic, they cannot count to one. I know a 4 years old, he can count to 10, I have not met an evolutionist who can count to 1, yet. Can you try the next time?

    Secondly, when I ask for a link, I a kind of expect not a link to propagandist articles in propagandists newspapers and magazines. I can do that myself, - look:
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by justone
    Observed Instances of Speciation
    by Joseph Boxhorn
    Copyright © 1993-2004
    [Last Update: September 1, 1995]

    Speciation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Speciation is the evolutionary process by which new biological species arise. There are four modes of natural speciation, based on the extent to which speciating populations are geographically isolated from one another: allopatric, peripatric, parapatric, and sympatric. Speciation may also be induced artificially, through animal husbandry or laboratory experiments. Observed examples of each kind of speciation are provided throughout.[1] .
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1057996306

    I even bolded red Observed examples of each kind of speciation are provided throughout
    And I asked :
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by justone
    Can you link me to one justone peer reviewed publication which demonstrates one justone observable factual occurrence of a NEW biological species arisal? One justone reference in the whole history of thousands experiments and observations? Not 2 not 3 not many, but one justone? One justone Observed example of speciation of whatever kind?
    Why would an evolutionist post my own link as a reply to my question based on the link? I would never know, I am afraid. Some of them claim that they are apes… I hope you are not an ape, - is it possible that you are not?


    I know that evolutionists do not understand minimal fairness, so I have to try to explain and bold it red now – a link to a peer reviewed scientific publication. For instance: The link to the propagandist site: Observed Instances of Speciation has a whole list which includes a whole bunch of peer reviewed articles. I am not even asking for such a fairness of not submitting an article from an evolutionist magazine where scientists do not publish their works. I am asking for one, justone article a peer reviewed scientific publication, so I can read and review it. Can you understand?

    I bet you think I am stupid betting my views on one justone article. Evolutionists being the most ignorant part of the public think that others are stupid. I want you to spend days and possibly weeks of your life, and possibly devote your whole life looking for one, justone observation of speciation. I want to ruin your days and possibly your life. It is my little revenge for all the personal insults I always get from evolutionists. It is my little revenge for the outrage of evolutionists over science, for the aggressive violence of evolutionists putting science in its darkest ages. Because I not only know that you will never find a single observation of speciation in peer reviewed publications, but I also know why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Here's another:

    Evolution Observed in Laboratory Bacteria

    I don't really expect that you'll read those reports. You certainly won't accept them. And I've got little doubt that you'll be back later in this thread, or some other, claiming that no evolutionist has ever been able to link to just one observation of the phenomenon of evolution.

    You don’t worry about me reading, try to become an exclusion and read an article before you decide that you have found one and you are ready to post it. The first thing evolutionists do – they make me read articles for them.

    Your “report”” is not qualified to be a report, but again as a courtesy – the quality one will never find in an evolutionists I have read it and it says:
    ‘’Somewhere around the 31,500th generation, the E. Coli developed a trait not present in the original strain: they began to be able to metabolise citrate, the inability of which is one of the main ways scientists distinguish E. Coli from other bacteria.’’


    Just some of my reports say:
    Plasmids in Escherichia coli controlling citrate-utilizing ability.

    The citrate-utilizing ability of 19 out of 22 citrate-positive Escherichia coli strains isolated from pig sewage was transferred via conjugation to E. coli K-12.
    The Escherichia coli Citrate Carrier CitT: a Member of a Novel Eubacterial Transporter Family Related to the 2-Oxoglutarate/Malate Translocator from Spinach Chloroplasts -- Pos et al. 180 (16): 4160 -- The Journal of Bacteriology

    Escherichia coli converts citrate to acetate and succinate. Here we report that the open reading frame ……. on the E. coli chromosome between rna and the citrate lyase genes encodes a citrate carrier.
    Active site mutants of Escherichia coli citrate synthase. Effects of mutations on catalytic and allosteric properties -- Pereira et al. 269 (1): 412 -- Journal of Biological Chemistry
    The mutations of histidine 264 and aspartate 362 affect steady-state kinetics as would be anticipated from current models for citrate synthase catalysis, and resemble mutations of these residues, in pig heart and E. coli enzyme, reported by others…

    As you can see I do read. You are not the 1st evolutionist who is trying. All of them know that I do respect their attempts and do pay attention, - until the moment they go completely blind and desert to strawmen and personal insults. Some of them just circle around – all I have to do is to demonstrate to the public their circling and circus. Some of them cut and run. But none of them has ever submitted one justone link. Because it cannot be there. And all of them go to other treads and even other forums and keep on yelling that evolution has been observed and it is a fact. Some of them are here and they looking at you, knowing what is going to happen as good as I do. You are not the 1st one.

    In reality, as one can see from the reports, a number of strains of E. Coli is known to metabolize citrate. E. Coli, as all other bacteria has an extraordinary ability to mutation, - this is what bacteria are known for. Mechanisms of RNA transportation and other which allow E.Coli to convert (or not to convert) citrate are not very well understood or known. Serious scientists study and try to decode such mechanisms, - they follow methodology of the Christian creationist scientist Gregor Mendel, while evolutionists conduct lengthy and unclean and UNREPEATED manipulations and post dubious conclusions, - they follow methodology of Darwin . So, would you be so kind to explain what is the conclusion???: -

    in the beginning we had E. Coli known for some strains capable of metabolizing citrate – and they have evolved into______________________________________________ ____
    please, be so kind to fill the blank.

    And that is short exert from what I can say about microevolution. I suggest you to try Nylon eating bacteria, - it is another evolutionists’ favorite after E.Coli. …- everything, even telephones looks like evolution to them. You really want to start me on bacteria? Go ahead, but remember, you have one justone shot.

    (I must confess that I have never been able to keep my threat of one shot. I always allowed more than one for evolutionists, I cannot really hold them as grown up humans when they claim to be apes…and so I am doing it again, - may be it is just fun for me to see it to the end, to the insults, strawmen, etc.)

    BTW, it is not important, but if you have a minute, - I did not get to you in my post about facts of evolution, can you describe in your personal world of fantasies how I should imagine the ancestor - as an ape…? of what kind, something similar to ape? Donkey with a remarkable penis? an alien? How do you develop such abilities to live by fantasies?
    Last edited by justone; 04-21-09 at 11:01 PM.

  9. #169
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique
    Newton's iron laws, for example, were "verified" for hundreds of years until Einstein came along and singlehandedly demolished them with Relativity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart
    I don't disagree with your post here
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case
    Well said.
    I agree with you Tucker. It is really well said. As a rule evolutionists’ thoughts are completely undecipherable, especially when they talk about Gravity and Relativity– and they do like to talk about Gravity and Relativity more than about anything else. Khayembii Communique has been able to produce a rounded sentence here. I have recognized it. This is what exactly they teach in schools, colleges, universities, TV and everywhere. This is why evolutionists make me vomit. They accept no reason, no facts, no appeal to simple humanity which should be in each and every human. I have been thinking – why. I cannot make myself to accept their claims that they are apes as an explanation…. yet. I am a kind of making my own theory to explain, - but it is too long even to start…

    …Communists and especially the bloodiest maniac who is on the avatar of Communique hated Henri Poincaré because Poincaré openly despised their primitive ape like thinking... …It is like no win situation… - on other hand Poincaré never cared to entertain half educated masses as much Einstein did … Now the masses are imposing their primitive thinking… I don’t like proletariat, what can I say, - I don’t. I wouldn’t like to introduce them to Henri Poincaré, one of the most brilliant minds, the first one to present modern principle of relativity and Lorentz transformations to the learned public, - I have no intention to humiliate one of the greatest by such a comical intruduction. Let’s them keep on doing it singlehandedly to relieve themselves from their monkey urges once in a while.

    I would introduce them to Einstein, because Einstein wouldn’t mind, but I am afraid they wouldn’t ever listen to anything he says if they don’t like it if it does not meet their blind beliefs. It does not matter to them that Einstein – personally, by himself, straight forward and clear in simple sentences in Theory of relativity itself, - published and available, that Einstein has been always insisting and explaining that relativity DOES CONFIRM to laws and theories of Newton. Because he was one of the scientists who followed the rules of science (one of the last scientists?). He knew he couldn’t sell HIS relativity, his theory couldn’t even have any creditability as a scientific if it could be suspected in disproving or abolishing another theory made in accordance with the rules of science, - when the rule 4 says that theories made in accordance with the rules of science do net get disproved or abolished or dismissed. Einstein knew the rules and followed the rules…. in difference from evolutionists.

    It is sad to see how much damage has been done to science to by evolutionists – just in order to make fantasies of evolution look scientific; how much of damage has been done to some human brains… I still think they are not apes among us.
    Last edited by justone; 04-21-09 at 11:10 PM.

  10. #170
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    What's most interesting to me about these evolution debates online is the frequent flipping back and forth between the ideas of creationism and intelligent design. Very often those who refuse to accept evolution will make arguments for both... with little or no understanding of the difference. Thus terms such as evolutionist and Darwinist get tossed around in vitriolic fits with little or no meaning.




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