View Poll Results: Did we evolve from Apes?

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  • Yes, we evolved from Apes.

    71 53.38%
  • No, we have not evolved in any shape or form, we are the same biological beings we have always been.

    26 19.55%
  • Yes, we did evolve, but i do not think we evolved from Apes.

    36 27.07%
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Thread: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

  1. #121
    Matthew 16:3

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Gravity is not a theory. It's an observed phenomenon. We have various theories which attempt to explain the fact that gravity is observed in the universe. Similarly, we have various theories to explain the fact that evolution is observed on earth...
    Actually, gravity is a theory, gravitation is not. Gravity is the theorized mechanism that is believed to be the causal factor behind gravitation.

    It may not be "Gravity" though that causes gravitation.

  2. #122
    Educator Grateful Heart's Avatar
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Actually, gravity is a theory, gravitation is not. Gravity is the theorized mechanism that is believed to be the causal factor behind gravitation.

    It may not be "Gravity" though that causes gravitation.
    Thanks for pointing out the distinction, because there is one. But I don't believe your explanation is correct. Gravity is not a theory, it's a force. A force that can be measured in the laboratory. Gravitation is the observed phenomenon, and gravity is the measure we use for that phenomenon. We have theories to explain the phenomenon of gravitation:

    The terms gravitation and gravity are mostly interchangeable in everyday use, but a distinction may be made in scientific usage. "Gravitation" is a general term describing the phenomenon by which bodies with mass are attracted to one another, while "gravity" refers specifically to the net force exerted by the Earth on objects in its vicinity as well as by other factors, such as the Earth's rotation.
    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity"]Gravity[/ame]

    grav·i·ty (grv-t)
    n.
    1. Physics
    a. The natural force of attraction exerted by a celestial body, such as Earth, upon objects at or near its surface, tending to draw them toward the center of the body.
    b. The natural force of attraction between any two massive bodies, which is directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.

  3. #123
    Matthew 16:3

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Thanks for pointing out the distinction, because there is one. But I don't believe your explanation is correct. Gravity is not a theory, it's a force. A force that can be measured in the laboratory. Gravitation is the observed phenomenon, and gravity is the measure we use for that phenomenon. We have theories to explain the phenomenon of gravitation:

    Gravity

    grav·i·ty (grv-t)
    n.
    1. Physics
    a. The natural force of attraction exerted by a celestial body, such as Earth, upon objects at or near its surface, tending to draw them toward the center of the body.
    b. The natural force of attraction between any two massive bodies, which is directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.
    It's a theoretical force. Unlike the other forces of nature, there is no known cause of "gravity". In the end, it may be discovered that gravity is a by-product of the other three forces (strong and weak nuclear and electro-magnetic).

    The phenomenon of gravitation is a Law. It exist, can be measured and is well-known and pretty much unfalsifiable.

    Until such a point that the Graviton is discovered, thus rendering the theory of gravity unfalsifiable, Gravity will remain a theory. It may or may not be real.

    Gravitation on the other hand is 100% certain.

  4. #124
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogger807 View Post
    Wherever science disproves the myths of religion there will be speculation. It is the only reason evolution is cast in doubt and only in the eyes of the faithful.
    How has science disproven creation/ID?

  5. #125
    Matthew 16:3

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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Grateful Heart, your error is that you are transposing gravity and gravitation. Gravitation can be measured, gravity cannot. Flip around the terms "gravity" and gravitation in your last post and it'll be correct.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 04-20-09 at 03:40 PM.

  6. #126
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Grateful Heart, your error is that you are transposing gravity and gravitation. Gravitation can be measured, gravity cannot. Flip around the terms "gravity" and gravitation in your last post and it'll be correct.
    Funny thing about gravitation...

    Everyone can see what it does and what it's done, but no one can prove what causes it.

    Sounds a lot like Creationism/ID.

    But, no one doubts gravity.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 04-20-09 at 04:06 PM.

  7. #127
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Funny thing about gravitation...

    Everyone can see what it does and what it's done, but no one can prove what causes it.

    Sounds a lot like Creationism/ID.

    But, no one doudts gravity.
    That's because theories on gravity don't call up deities as causes in the end. No one doubts gravity because it's easily measurable (in the phenomenological sense, I have no interest in getting involved in the semantics debate going on currently) and affects us each and every day. We know it exists. We don't understand the dynamics behind it at all. Why it's so much weaker than the rest of the forces, what mediates the force, why isn't there "negative mass", etc. Lots of unknowns left with gravity, it can't be quantized yet either. But as for "belief", unlike gods gravity acts every day on every one in a relatively understood manner. We're pulled down to the Earth and are thankful for it. But even in the wildest fantasies of theories on actual dynamics of gravity, nothing ever suggests the necessity for deity. In that manner, Creationism/ID and gravity are very remarkably different things. One is saying, we're gonna come up with things and test for them to figure out if they're right; the other is magic.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
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  8. #128
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's because theories on gravity don't call up deities as causes in the end.
    So... if the argument were 'gravity were caused by God', you'd doubt it?

  9. #129
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Funny thing about gravitation...

    Everyone can see what it does and what it's done, but no one can prove what causes it.

    Sounds a lot like Creationism/ID.

    But, no one doudts gravity.
    I'd say that using ID or creationism to explain the causation of evolution is akin to saying gravitation is caused by God willing objects to gravitate towards each other.

    While it may indeed be correct to a degree (depending upon perspective) but it has no scientific merit.

    Personally, I don't thing ID is legitimate science simply because it answers the "why" question. Science is not interested in Why things happen, it is interested in How they happen. Even if God designed species, he would have used mechanisms to do so, as is shown by how he uses mechanisms for basically everything else in the universe.

    The problem with the concepts of Intelligent Design and creationism is not that it involves a deity, it's that it seeks to deny scientific inquiries into the deity's methods by leaving it as the final explanation.

    One can easily believe in a deity and evolution at the same time. Evidence of convergent evolution indicates that principles of evolution follow set patterns regardless of how they come about. Sonar capabilities in animals that travel in media (bats, some birds, cetaceans, and some rodents), saber teeth, etc are all examples of the likelihood that evolution follows certain "rules". They may or may not be attributable to a "creator".

    Science doesn't concern itself with why the rules exist, they only seek to discover how they exist.

    That's why faith and science are not contradictory. Commonly, people on both sides of the divide make the mistake of thinking that the two are mutually exclusive, but they aren't. They are separate and distinct from each other, and they may be complimentary to each other.

    I don't deny ID/creationism per se, I simply deny it's scientific relevance.

  10. #130
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    Re: Evolution: Did we really evolve from Apes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So... if the argument were 'gravity were caused by God', you'd doubt it?
    If the sole reasoning behind the dynamics is magic, I'd probably look for an alternative explanation. If that's the explanation you want, by all means take it. But I wouldn't argue for it to be taught in a science class.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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