View Poll Results: A Leftist is FOR the following list

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  • Disagree, a leftist is AGAINST the items on that list

    13 72.22%
  • Agree, a leftists is FOR the items on that list

    5 27.78%
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Thread: A Leftist is FOR the following list

  1. #31
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So then your argument isn't that taxes are inherently too high, it's that they're misappropriated. That's a fair enough argument. But you want the government to spend money on certain things, I want government to spend money on certain other things, and someone else wants government to spend money on certain other things. That's democracy for you.
    No, that's not democracy. That's self-indulgence.

    Yes, everybody has their pet programs they like to see from government, but it is disingenuous to consider all such programs equal in merit or equal in value.

    Moreover, not everyone places the same value on the same programs. Even the services I tend to want from government I don't value highly for the most part (although keeping the bad guys on the other side of the border is definitely valuable and important).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    IMO your point would be better served by arguing against those programs you dislike than by arguing against the level of taxation.
    Simply put, you're wrong. The level of taxation is the problem. Dear Leader and the rest of his ilk pontificate about Americans "making hard choices", but won't make any themselves. That much is obvious by his insane budget, and the spending spree laughingly called a stimulus package. There are no "hard choices", none at all. Handouts for every special interest, and double if you are a Wall Street banker that contributed to the right Democrats.

    Which is why the level of taxation is the problem. The notion that taxes can be raised to fund everybody's spending desires is irrational and bereft of any economic legitimacy. Only by keeping taxes low and pushing them ever lower can truly difficult choices between guns and butter get made. Only by keeping taxes low and pushing taxes lower can real debate on the real value of government-provided services get started. Setting taxation levels to cover every program desired by anybody (or at least any Democrat) prevents any and all considerations of value, and thus makes choosing completely impossible.

  2. #32
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    It IS patriotic to pay your taxes. Anyone who loves this Country would not try to justify how they can save every dollar for their own wallet.

    See...that's the difference between people who are patriotic and those who claim to be "patriotic". The former understand the principles and sacrifices that need to be made to enjoy our way of life, the other believe that patriotism is waving a flag and trying to figure out how they can avoid paying as little as possible for the things that we all enjoy.
    So patriotism to you, is sacrificing to the state to enjoy life?

    That is a warped sense of patriotism for one and certainly a distorted view of a joyful life.
    "If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action."

    --Ludwig von Mises

  3. #33
    Stigmatized! End R Word! Kali's Avatar
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    It IS patriotic to pay your taxes. Anyone who loves this Country would not try to justify how they can save every dollar for their own wallet.

    See...that's the difference between people who are patriotic and those who claim to be "patriotic". The former understand the principles and sacrifices that need to be made to enjoy our way of life, the other believe that patriotism is waving a flag and trying to figure out how they can avoid paying as little as possible for the things that we all enjoy.
    Patriotic is knowing the IRS is evil and wishing to do away with that nasty Beast.

  4. #34
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    I disagree with #8, and the rest -- I don't have much of an idea on.

    More free trade, in my view is more a rightist thing. Free trade = free market = laissez-faire capitalism.

    Examples of anti-free trade leftists can be found in Communist countries' governments, where their central governments imposes economic barriers, in order to keep everyone equal.

  5. #35
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by George VI View Post
    I disagree with #8, and the rest -- I don't have much of an idea on.

    More free trade, in my view is more a rightist thing. Free trade = free market = laissez-faire capitalism.

    Examples of anti-free trade leftists can be found in Communist countries' governments, where their central governments imposes economic barriers, in order to keep everyone equal.
    Traditionally the Democratic Party has been the more pro-trade party...it's only in the last 30 years or so that the unions got a stick up their asses about it, and so Democratic politicians have been behaving like idiots to appease them.

    If one good thing comes from this economic crisis, perhaps it will be the demise of the UAW and the weakening of unions all over the country. Then perhaps Democrats will be less afraid to stand up for free trade, which they know perfectly well is a sound economic policy.
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  6. #36
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No.

    No.

    No.

    I cannot say for sure, but I have not seen any that have held this position.

    This depends entirely on if the Preasident is a Republican or not.
    And so, the answer is no.

    Leftists oposed GWBs nominations because GWB nominated them.

    No

    No

    Given their defintion of 'responsible' - yes.
    Given the -actual- definition of responoble - no.

    No

    Not just no, but hell no.

    See above.
    You don't even know what a "leftist" is, and are totally unqualified to speak for them, whatever they are.
    I will tell you this, what you call left....is the center. You, my friend, are on the fringe right.

  7. #37
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    You don't even know what a "leftist" is, and are totally unqualified to speak for them, whatever they are.
    I will tell you this, what you call left....is the center. You, my friend, are on the fringe right.
    The center of what? Of what do you claim to be the center?

  8. #38
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    In looking it up to make sure I was correct I found this definition.

    In politics, left-wing, leftist, and the Left are terms applied to positions that focus on gradual or radical progressivism and a more egalitarian distribution of wealth and privilege. Also see Barack Hussien Obama, Joe Biben, Nasty Piglousy, Hairless Reid.
    Last edited by Councilman; 04-26-09 at 05:07 PM.

  9. #39
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Traditionally the Democratic Party has been the more pro-trade party...it's only in the last 30 years or so that the unions got a stick up their asses about it, and so Democratic politicians have been behaving like idiots to appease them.

    If one good thing comes from this economic crisis, perhaps it will be the demise of the UAW and the weakening of unions all over the country. Then perhaps Democrats will be less afraid to stand up for free trade, which they know perfectly well is a sound economic policy.
    If they become more free trade, then I might just convert over to democrat, but for now, I'm sticking it up with the Republicans. I wouldn't change being conservative though, just I'm more of a free-trade man, too.

  10. #40
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    You don't even know what a "leftist" is, and are totally unqualified to speak for them, whatever they are.
    I will tell you this, what you call left....is the center. You, my friend, are on the fringe right.
    Thank you for, yet again, illustrating beyond any doubt that you do not have any idea whatsoever what you are talking about.

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