View Poll Results: A Leftist is FOR the following list

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  • Disagree, a leftist is AGAINST the items on that list

    13 72.22%
  • Agree, a leftists is FOR the items on that list

    5 27.78%
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Thread: A Leftist is FOR the following list

  1. #21
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    The Supreme Court, on the other hand, in Gregory v Helvering, rejected your thesis:


    Or, as Judge Learned Hand noted, on the US Second Court of Appeals earlier ruling on that same case:

    Nowhere in either of those decisions did the courts say that people don't have to pay their taxes. They said that people don't have to pay MORE taxes than they're legally required to pay. I don't think you'll find anyone of any political ideology who disagrees with that.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-21-09 at 02:18 PM.
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  2. #22
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post

    Nowhere in either of those decisions did the courts say that people don't have to pay their taxes. They said that people don't have to pay MORE taxes than they're legally required to pay. I don't think you'll find anyone of any political ideology who disagrees with that.
    I guess that depends... there are many who villify the 'rich' for using every tax break they can find in order to lower their taxes as much as possible.

  3. #23
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Nowhere in either of those decisions did the courts say that people don't have to pay their taxes. They said that people don't have to pay MORE taxes than they're legally required to pay. I don't think you'll find anyone of any political ideology who disagrees with that.
    Joe Biden says otherwise. Channeling the People's Republic of China, the gaffe-machine cum Vice President pontificates about how it's "patriotic" to pay taxes.

  4. #24
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Joe Biden says otherwise. Channeling the People's Republic of China, the gaffe-machine cum Vice President pontificates about how it's "patriotic" to pay taxes.

    It IS patriotic to pay your taxes. Anyone who loves this Country would not try to justify how they can save every dollar for their own wallet.

    See...that's the difference between people who are patriotic and those who claim to be "patriotic". The former understand the principles and sacrifices that need to be made to enjoy our way of life, the other believe that patriotism is waving a flag and trying to figure out how they can avoid paying as little as possible for the things that we all enjoy.
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  5. #25
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I guess that depends... there are many who villify the 'rich' for using every tax break they can find in order to lower their taxes as much as possible.
    But even those people merely seek to change the tax code to make it harder for the rich to deduct expenses...they don't seek to throw them in jail for taking advantage of the current tax code.

    I bet if you asked those same people if they thought the rich were obligated to pay more in taxes than the law requires of them, most of them would say no.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-21-09 at 02:35 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Joe Biden says otherwise. Channeling the People's Republic of China, the gaffe-machine cum Vice President pontificates about how it's "patriotic" to pay taxes.
    I'm still trying to figure out how you made the logical leap from "It's patriotic to pay taxes" to "People are obligated to pay more taxes than the tax code requires of them."
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  7. #27
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    It IS patriotic to pay your taxes. Anyone who loves this Country would not try to justify how they can save every dollar for their own wallet.

    See...that's the difference between people who are patriotic and those who claim to be "patriotic". The former understand the principles and sacrifices that need to be made to enjoy our way of life, the other believe that patriotism is waving a flag and trying to figure out how they can avoid paying as little as possible for the things that we all enjoy.
    Hmm... looks like someone attended the GWB School of Propaganda, where he learned to paint those that disagree with him as unpatriotic.

  8. #28
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Sure...that's what they all claim, but these people cry about having to pay taxes no matter what the amount is.
    Its the mentality that they shouldn't have to pay anything and magically everything that we have will still be here.

    I could be wrong, but I think our tax rate is below that of many other countries with similar quality of life.
    Personally, I think our tax rate is about right. I don't mind paying taxes because I enjoy the benefits that those taxes allow us to have in this country.
    All Western countries pay far too much in taxes in my opinion and the wrong sort of taxes, imho our tax systems are just schemes to take money from the average person and give it to the rich and corporations, but that certainly does not mean I want no taxes and I doubt celticlord does either.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  9. #29
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    All Western countries pay far too much in taxes in my opinion and the wrong sort of taxes, imho our tax systems are just schemes to take money from the average person and give it to the rich and corporations, but that certainly does not mean I want no taxes and I doubt celticlord does either.
    As a purely philosophical proposition, I most assuredly "want" no taxes. I also "want" free beer, free steak, and free winning lottery tickets.

    Since I can't have free beer or free steak, I am willing to part with a bit of my coin to indulge in both. Since I can't have free winning lottery tickets, and since winning lottery tickets are slightly more rare than a virgin in Paris, I am generally not willing to part with any of my coin to play the lottery.

    No, I don't want to pay taxes. Anyone who wants to pay taxes is a damn fool and deserves to lose every dime he's got. I will, however, pay those taxes necessary to support those things I want government to do....which generally ain't much (fix roads, keep the bad guys on the other side of the border, and that's pretty much it).

  10. #30
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    Re: A Leftist is FOR the following list

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    No, I don't want to pay taxes. Anyone who wants to pay taxes is a damn fool and deserves to lose every dime he's got. I will, however, pay those taxes necessary to support those things I want government to do....which generally ain't much (fix roads, keep the bad guys on the other side of the border, and that's pretty much it).
    So then your argument isn't that taxes are inherently too high, it's that they're misappropriated. That's a fair enough argument. But you want the government to spend money on certain things, I want government to spend money on certain other things, and someone else wants government to spend money on certain other things. That's democracy for you.

    IMO your point would be better served by arguing against those programs you dislike than by arguing against the level of taxation.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-21-09 at 11:44 PM.
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