View Poll Results: Which of these things do you think are true?

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  • The only way to properly use a gun is to kill something with it.

    2 8.00%
  • The only way to use a gun to defend yourself is to kill someone.

    2 8.00%
  • An 'assault weapon' is not capable of firing single shots

    1 4.00%
  • 'Assault weapon' and assault rifle are interchangeable terms

    0 0%
  • 'Assault weapons' are far more powerful than 'standard' weapons.

    5 20.00%
  • 'Assault weapons' are necessarily inaccurate and only suitable for 'spray fire'

    0 0%
  • Penetrating body armor is a Herculean task for a 'standard' firearm

    1 4.00%
  • A cop is better trained, competent, has better judgment and is more stable than an ordinary citizen

    13 52.00%
  • All of the above

    1 4.00%
  • None of the above

    12 48.00%
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Thread: Question for the anti-gun crowd: Which of these things are true?

  1. #31
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Question for the anti-gun crowd: Which of these things are true?

    I have to wonder:
    If "none of the above" has such a strong showing, why are each of these 'truths' (or a varianth thereof) so often seen posted by the anti-gun side?

  2. #32
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    Re: Question for the anti-gun crowd: Which of these things are true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I have to wonder:
    If "none of the above" has such a strong showing, why are each of these 'truths' (or a varianth thereof) so often seen posted by the anti-gun side?
    Because, like most propagandists, they'll tell any lie they can dream up to make their side seem "reasonable".

  3. #33
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    Re: Question for the anti-gun crowd: Which of these things are true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    I voted for #5 and #8.

    I'm not necessarily anti-gun, and I'm not entirely sure about voting for #5. I think it depends on what is considered a 'standard weapon.' For example, an M4 can do far more damage than a Glock right?

    For #8, that's common sense, officers and specially trained for their jobs.
    For the "M4" vs. "Glock"

    You tell me.

    This is the .223 round, otherwise known as the 5.56x45 NATO. The M4, or more commonly known as the AR-15 fires this round. Keep in mind that the actual bullet fired from the cartridge is not a whole lot bigger than a .22. The bullet is fired at roughly 3000 fps. The round is designed to forward tumble upon impact.


    This, is the .357 Sig/Auto. It is shot out of almost any pistol that can fire the .40 caliber cartridge. There are many Glocks that fire this round. The bullet is slightly longer, and much wider than the .223/5.56x45 round. It fires the bullet at roughly 1,350 feet per second. This is still relatively fast (think you can outrun it? lol) yet it's slow enough and the bullet is heavy enough to transfer ALOT more energy than the .223 shown above. More energy transfer = more contact damage and overall more destruction.


    Now, one of the weapons is small enough to be put in and pulled out of a pocket, the other is either a carbine or full size rifle.

    You tell me which one "does more damage"
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  4. #34
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    Re: Question for the anti-gun crowd: Which of these things are true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Ummm....I'd have to disagree with you, at least in part.

    I know lots of cops and lots of armed citizens. Many of the armed citizens I know have had more and better training than many of the cops.

    When I was a county cop, we had four AD's (accidental discharges) in the locker room over three months. No one was injured. Most were attributed to racking the slide with the finger inside the trigger guard on a type of auto pistol with a light trigger. Now, that is just a newbie error... finger off the trigger until ready to fire is basic. Embarassing. At least they got the "pointed in a safe direction" part right. Our Captain was not pleased.

    The average cop does only that training that is required of him by the department. Many of the private armed citizens I know have sought out at least some advanced training with world-class instructors. Is this typical? I don't know, but its been my experience.

    As for being more stable... naaaaaah, not really. Divorce is so common its practically a stereotype. Domestic abuse ditto, often covered up (seen that with my own eyes more than once.)

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not busting on cops; I used to be one and the majority are good folks. My point is they are like human beings in general; their character and quality comes in many degrees and flavors.

    Your last sentence is dead-on correct. Private armed citizens use guns for self-defense, or defense of others. Cops do that but also have to use weapons for effecting arrests in many cases. Where citizens usually try to avoid trouble when they can, cops are obliged to seek it out and involve themselves, a different dynamic. Dynamic entry (usually SWAT) is a whole 'nuther thing too. Not to mention cops usually have backup present or on the way when the SHTF.


    G.

    The former chief firearms instructor for the city of cincinnati noted that if you took ten cops at random and put them up against ten people shooting at the local public indoor gun range in a contest that featured

    1) pure marksmanship

    2) knowledge of gun laws

    3) shoot/noshoot scenarios

    He'd bet on the non cops everytime
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  5. #35
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    Re: Question for the anti-gun crowd: Which of these things are true?

    I especially disagree with the police officer one - I mean, it's not a one to one that they're crazier, but before vans serial killers liked either VW's or cop-looking cars - I mean, there's a certain type that likes authority that you don't want to have dating your sister. On that note also they do have elevated spousal abuse. And it's not like the ones in my locality know me from Cain, or don't some of them maybe wish they were special-forces commandos or something, or not have military-type weapons in the trunks of the cars, so if federal authorities ordered them against me Posse-Commitatus (yes I adhere to that interpretation of it) would be a moot point. And it's not like they intervene, or are not specifically absolved from having to do so if they don't like the setup, in crimes other than traffic violations, or that they're lawyers or don't know that you're probably not a lawyer.

    I mean, I have friends who are cops, and I appreciate their work - just that law enforcement hovers between public service and instrument of authority, and might as such get undue latitude.

  6. #36
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    Re: Question for the anti-gun crowd: Which of these things are true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I have to wonder:
    If "none of the above" has such a strong showing, why are each of these 'truths' (or a varianth thereof) so often seen posted by the anti-gun side?
    Because it's an opinion poll and utterly unscientific?
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  7. #37
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    Re: Question for the anti-gun crowd: Which of these things are true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edify_Always_In_All_Ways View Post
    Because it's an opinion poll and utterly unscientific?
    To be honest I think it has more to do with the fact that most "anti-gun" supporters have very little knowledge of firearms in general. This makes answering real questions about firearms and the use of such very hard for them to say the least.

    PS So in the end they probably don't want to look stupid, who would?
    Last edited by Black Dog; 04-26-09 at 11:46 PM.


    No Lives Matter

  8. #38
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Question for the anti-gun crowd: Which of these things are true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edify_Always_In_All_Ways View Post
    Because it's an opinion poll and utterly unscientific?
    No, that doesnt really answer the question.

  9. #39
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    Re: Question for the anti-gun crowd: Which of these things are true?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    The average cop is probably more of all those things than the average citizen, mostly due to the fact that they all go through extensive firearm training while the average citizen doesn't. There's also probably something to the fact that in situations where guns are being used, police officers have a different set of interests than do private citizens.
    Cops using guns like to hear the loud bangs, citizens using guns in self defense to save their lives.

    That must be what you're referring to.

    When was the last time you heard of a group of citizens firing off 100 rounds or more and not hitting anything but occupied buildings? Can't recall one, but a couple years ago in Compton the LA County Sheriff's did exactly that, and arrested...no one.

  10. #40
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    Re: Question for the anti-gun crowd: Which of these things are true?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    To clarify, I was referring to the "average citizen" who probably doesn't have a gun at all or has only had the most minimal training. I don't doubt that there are many private citizens who are far more responsible with their weapons than many cops.
    This is called "moving goal posts" in most circles.

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