View Poll Results: Was the American revolution "Conservative" in nature?

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  • Yes

    6 26.09%
  • No

    12 52.17%
  • Other

    5 21.74%
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Thread: Conservative Revolution?

  1. #21
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    Re: Conservative Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Libertarianism is not a subset of conservatism.
    In terms of the modern definitions, IE of the past 30+ years, yes, out of the two main political philosophies out there Lilbertarianism is primarily a conservative ideology.

    It is fiscally conservative, conservative in a government size perspective, conservative in a militaristic perspective. It is a strange hybrid of conservative and liberal view points on the social side of things.

    Your issue, as I already stated, is you seem to be at odds with current Republicans and their brand of conservatism that, while present for the past 7 years, is hardly enough to have changed the terminology on a large scale way for the past few decades. The current Republican brand is a strange hybrid of liberal and conservative views in regards to the military, fiscal policy, and the size of government, and social issues. While Sean Hannity may keep calling himself a conservative, and perhaps not incorrectly as a large umbrella term, his particular brand of conservatism is very much more in line with Republicans than pure conservatism.

    You can run from it all you want because it disgusts you to be somehow tied to those icky republicans and conservatives and because you're one of the most stereotypical libertarians in regards to your thinking and attitude toward other groups of politics on this board, but the fact is its not incorrect in current terms to label Libertarianism as being under the umbrella of Conservatism when speaking of the two main political leans currently experienced within our country.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Conservative Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    In other words, nothing like "conservatives" of today.
    I'm a conservative of today and it fits me

  3. #23
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    Re: Conservative Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    In terms of the modern definitions, IE of the past 30+ years, yes, out of the two main political philosophies out there Lilbertarianism is primarily a conservative ideology.

    It is fiscally conservative, conservative in a government size perspective, conservative in a militaristic perspective. It is a strange hybrid of conservative and liberal view points on the social side of things.

    Your issue, as I already stated, is you seem to be at odds with current Republicans and their brand of conservatism that, while present for the past 7 years, is hardly enough to have changed the terminology on a large scale way for the past few decades. The current Republican brand is a strange hybrid of liberal and conservative views in regards to the military, fiscal policy, and the size of government, and social issues. While Sean Hannity may keep calling himself a conservative, and perhaps not incorrectly as a large umbrella term, his particular brand of conservatism is very much more in line with Republicans than pure conservatism.

    You can run from it all you want because it disgusts you to be somehow tied to those icky republicans and conservatives and because you're one of the most stereotypical libertarians in regards to your thinking and attitude toward other groups of politics on this board, but the fact is its not incorrect in current terms to label Libertarianism as being under the umbrella of Conservatism when speaking of the two main political leans currently experienced within our country.
    Snarky today aren't we.

    Still I pointed out why you are wrong previously. Libertarianism was not born out of conservatism. There are many similarities between libertarianism and the philosophy formerly known as conservatism on fiscal matters, but social matters things were very different. Socially it lined up well better with liberalism. The fact is that libertarian philosophy is deeply rooted in classical liberalism and comes neither from modern liberalism or conservatism. Though it shares many ideas with both.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Conservative Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Snarky today aren't we.

    Still I pointed out why you are wrong previously. Libertarianism was not born out of conservatism. There are many similarities between libertarianism and the philosophy formerly known as conservatism on fiscal matters, but social matters things were very different. Socially it lined up well better with liberalism. The fact is that libertarian philosophy is deeply rooted in classical liberalism and comes neither from modern liberalism or conservatism. Though it shares many ideas with both.
    I didn't disagree with you inregards to it being possibly closer to classical liberalism, or being born more out of that. You're creating a strawman and you can beat on it all you want.

    I'm talking about currently and the current dominant political philosophies and the basic principles and views of said philosophies. Out of the two major leans currently, Liberal and Conservative, Libertarians fit more under the conservative banner. Republicans fit under that as well. That does not make them one in the same.

    Just because two things fall under the same umbrella doesn't mean they're exactly the same or amazingly closely related. Take sports. You could say there's two primary current spectrums of Sport...those with balls and those without. Football and Baseball would both fall under the umbrella of "Sports with Balls", that does not necessarily mean that they are exactly the same or even closely the same. But in regards to the core definition used there, the use of a ball or no, baseball is closer to football than it is to say swimming.

    I'm not arguing of whence Libertarian came. I'm arguing as to where it sits in the spectrum of American Politics based on the two over arching political leans found within this country.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Conservative Revolution?

    Ok, when the umbrella is Sports with Balls, yeah football and baseball are under that. But if the umbrella was football, baseball wouldn't fall under it. It's not that you claim the umbrella is small government philosophies or something like that, you claim the umbrella is conservatism in and of itself. If libertarianism fell under that umbrella, that would make it a subset of conservatism. But libertarianism is not a subset of conservatism, while there are some things which the two philosophies agree on they disagree on many fundamental things. In the end, libertarianism is equally apart from modern liberalism and conservatism.
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  6. #26
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    Re: Conservative Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    I'm a conservative of today and it fits me
    Then you are the rarity. People of today who often proclaim to be "conservatives" very little in common with true "conservatism".
    Todays "Conservatives" are usually the most vocal advocates for Huge Government. They want Government involved in everything from the so-called "Patriot Act", to legislating morality, to government involvement in religion. These are the very things that Goldwater rallied against.
    There hasn't been a true national conservative movement since Goldwater.
    The current movement led by Limbaugh and his cohorts has little to do with "Conservatism" and a lot to do with big government involvement into the most core basics of our lives.
    Last edited by disneydude; 04-16-09 at 10:56 AM.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Conservative Revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    There hasn't been a true national conservative movement since Goldwater.
    The current movement led by Limbaugh and his cohorts has little to do with "Conservatism" and a lot to do with big government involvement into the most core basics of our lives.
    there is one right now.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Conservative Revolution?

    Yes I should have more more clear, I thought asking the question "was it really a revolution at all?" would have hinted at my definition.

    Nevermind.

    In this case I define "conservative" as the fact that the Americans were trying to preserve their rights instead of fight for new ones.


  9. #29
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    Re: Conservative Revolution?

    Modern conservatives and libertarians intersect to the extent to which both want to preserve the system of limited government on which the country was founded.

    Modern liberals have less desire for this than modern conservatives. So, that is the respect in which I think libertarianism falls more in line with modern American conservatism.

    Now, it departs from modern American conservatism in those areas where conservatives want the government to enforce social policy. But those areas are, for the most part, smaller and fewer than the areas where modern liberals want to see it.

    (Generally speaking, if you're claiming that something is a "right" and also claiming the government should fund it, well, that's just not libertarian.)
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