Attending a tax day tea party protest?

Hugh · 06-03-09, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dix

It's really not up to you to say when we should draw the line about taxes since you don't think taxes are ever too high!

And, no, we have not had socialism in this country "for decades". But that is where we are headed now ie. auto, banking, health care.

Bush was too fiscally liberal for my tastes (and for a lot of other conservatives). I was against the bailouts from day 1. It's not "all of a sudden that it's worth protesting" - the things that we're protesting are recent developments!

Hi, I was just reading these posts and yours stood out for me.
I find this fear of socialism (in evil red font!) amusing. Europe runs on a Socialist model, the result? Excellent social welfare for those who need it and accessible medical care. Noone is dying because of our socialism, there's no panic in the streets, there is, however, a greater access to services. We pay higher taxes but that money dosen't simply disappear down a black hole, it comes back to us in the form of essential services. People do not get turned away from hospitals in Europe, they do in America. Why do Americans hate the idea of government so much? Its your government, noone else's. The idea of this red menace is absurd. Britain is ruled by the socialist Labour party in case you haven't noticed. Denmark and Sweden boast superb quality of life and advanced social models thanks to their socialist governing. Socialism does not have to be such a dirty word.

Reverend_Hellh0und · 06-03-09, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Hi, I was just reading these posts and yours stood out for me.
I find this fear of socialism (in evil red font!) amusing. Europe runs on a Socialist model, the result? Excellent social welfare for those who need it and accessible medical care. Noone is dying because of our socialism, there's no panic in the streets, there is, however, a greater access to services. We pay higher taxes but that money dosen't simply disappear down a black hole, it comes back to us in the form of essential services. People do not get turned away from hospitals in Europe, they do in America. Why do Americans hate the idea of government so much? Its your government, noone else's. The idea of this red menace is absurd. Britain is ruled by the socialist Labour party in case you haven't noticed. Denmark and Sweden boast superb quality of life and advanced social models thanks to their socialist governing. Socialism does not have to be such a dirty word.

didn't like 30k die in paris a few years back, because "socialism" didn't provide AC?

Hugh · 06-03-09, 06:36 AM

I sincerely hope this guy dosen't represent the quality of debate on these forums.

Reverend_Hellh0und · 06-03-09, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

I sincerely hope this guy dosen't represent the quality of debate on these forums.

Come now. You want to sing the praises of socialism, you need to take the good with the bad, no?

Tell me, I hear rationed health care, means if you ain't rich, you wait in line....

Is this correct?

As for "quality of debate", perhaps you should check yourself my friend.

No one gets turned away from a hospital in the US. This is wrong. factually incorrect.

Hugh · 06-03-09, 06:56 AM

There's a private tier, which is affordable. You don't have to be rich.
There's a public tier, which is free (or in some countries, heavily subsidised).
True, there are longer waiting times on the public tier but everyone is still treated. It's a little rich to see an American scold a European because those in free public healthcare have to go on a waiting list for some procedures. If you ain't rich in America, you don't even get a waiting list. You get shown the door. No insurance, not treatment. People actually die because they cannot afford health care. So I'll take my waiting list and be happy with it. Also, the waiting list only applies to some procedures and specialised appointments. You will not die in a queue. I may even buy health insurance, in Europe I do not have to be rich to do that.

Reverend_Hellh0und · 06-03-09, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

There's a private tier, which is affordable. You don't have to be rich.
There's a public tier, which is free (or in some countries, heavily subsidised).
True, there are longer waiting times on the public tier but everyone is still treated. It's a little rich to see an American scold a European because those in free public healthcare have to go on a waiting list for some procedures. If you ain't rich in America, you don't even get a waiting list. You get shown the door. No insurance, not treatment. People actually die because they cannot afford health care. So I'll take my waiting list and be happy with it. Also, the waiting list only applies to some procedures and specialised appointments. You will not die in a queue. I may even buy health insurance, in Europe I do not have to be rich to do that.

So people don't come to the US for medical procedures they have to wait years for in europe?

And once again, you are wrong. Show me Americans who have died from no insurance.

You can not be turned down in the US for life treatening health issues.

Hell an emergency room can not turn you down for most things. You are making it up as you go along!

I'll wait.

Hugh · 06-03-09, 07:19 AM

17-Year-Old Cancer Survivor Dies After Transplant Is Finally Approved By CIGNA - cbs2.com
Man Dies After Insurance Co. Refuses To Cover Treatment - Health News Story - KMBC Kansas City
BBC NEWS | Americas | Boy's death highlights US health debate

There are waiting lists, for sure. Would I swap the European model in which everyone is treated for the American one in which life saving procedures can be denied because you are too poor to afford insurance? Get real.

Reverend_Hellh0und · 06-03-09, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

17-Year-Old Cancer Survivor Dies After Transplant Is Finally Approved By CIGNA - cbs2.com
Man Dies After Insurance Co. Refuses To Cover Treatment - Health News Story - KMBC Kansas City
BBC NEWS | Americas | Boy's death highlights US health debate

There are waiting lists, for sure. Would I swap the European model in which everyone is treated for the American one in which life saving procedures can be denied because you are too poor to afford insurance? Get real.

Man Dies in Winnipeg Emergency Room after waiting 34 Hours | NowPublic Photo Archives

Mother demands answers as Ormskirk man dies after two-hour wait at Southport A & E - Skelmersdale Advertiser

+ YET ANOTHER CANADIAN HORROR STORY + FreeMarketCure.com

New Statesman - Those who die waiting

“Universal” Health Care Kills | wakalix

Hugh · 06-03-09, 07:33 AM

I've got the feeling that we're both pulling sensational instances out of the bag to justify our positions. Your examples, like mine, probably do not represent accurately our respective systems. That's the problem with haste and reaching a conclusion before googling. I'm going to stop because I don't think either of us are going to convince the other in the next 45 minutes, I'm not arguing for arguments sake.
I will finish with this small summation of my point:
If I'm poor I get free healthcare, If I fall seriously ill tomorrow I get free healthcare, one thing I never need to worry about is healthcare and what happens when I fall ill.

Reverend_Hellh0und · 06-03-09, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

I've got the feeling that we're both pulling sensational instances out of the bag to justify our positions. Your examples, like mine, probably do not represent accurately our respective systems. That's the problem with haste and reaching a conclusion before googling. I'm going to stop because I don't think either of us are going to convince the other in the next 45 minutes, I'm not arguing for arguments sake.
I will finish with this small summation of my point:
If I'm poor I get free healthcare, If I fall seriously ill tomorrow I get free healthcare, one thing I never need to worry about is healthcare and what happens when I fall ill.

Same thing in the US.

I'll take what is

Medicaid

and SCHIP for $500 bucks, jack.

You have been wrong since you decided to start posting my european friend.

Backing out is probably the most noble of persuits at this juncture.

View Poll Results: Are you attending a tea party protest?
Yes, I'll be protesting	9	31.03%
Yes, but not to protest (explain in post, please)	1	3.45%
No, not attending	19	65.52%
Voters: 29. This poll is closed

06-03-09, 06:36 AM	#83
Hugh User Join Date: Jun 2009 Last Seen: 06-27-09 05:02 PM Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts Lean: Private Gender:	Re: Attending a tax day tea party protest? I sincerely hope this guy dosen't represent the quality of debate on these forums.

06-03-09, 06:56 AM	#85
Hugh User Join Date: Jun 2009 Last Seen: 06-27-09 05:02 PM Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts Lean: Private Gender:	Re: Attending a tax day tea party protest? There's a private tier, which is affordable. You don't have to be rich. There's a public tier, which is free (or in some countries, heavily subsidised). True, there are longer waiting times on the public tier but everyone is still treated. It's a little rich to see an American scold a European because those in free public healthcare have to go on a waiting list for some procedures. If you ain't rich in America, you don't even get a waiting list. You get shown the door. No insurance, not treatment. People actually die because they cannot afford health care. So I'll take my waiting list and be happy with it. Also, the waiting list only applies to some procedures and specialised appointments. You will not die in a queue. I may even buy health insurance, in Europe I do not have to be rich to do that.

06-03-09, 07:19 AM	#87
Hugh User Join Date: Jun 2009 Last Seen: 06-27-09 05:02 PM Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts Lean: Private Gender:	Re: Attending a tax day tea party protest? 17-Year-Old Cancer Survivor Dies After Transplant Is Finally Approved By CIGNA - cbs2.com Man Dies After Insurance Co. Refuses To Cover Treatment - Health News Story - KMBC Kansas City BBC NEWS \| Americas \| Boy's death highlights US health debate There are waiting lists, for sure. Would I swap the European model in which everyone is treated for the American one in which life saving procedures can be denied because you are too poor to afford insurance? Get real.

06-03-09, 07:33 AM	#89
Hugh User Join Date: Jun 2009 Last Seen: 06-27-09 05:02 PM Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts Lean: Private Gender:	Re: Attending a tax day tea party protest? I've got the feeling that we're both pulling sensational instances out of the bag to justify our positions. Your examples, like mine, probably do not represent accurately our respective systems. That's the problem with haste and reaching a conclusion before googling. I'm going to stop because I don't think either of us are going to convince the other in the next 45 minutes, I'm not arguing for arguments sake. I will finish with this small summation of my point: If I'm poor I get free healthcare, If I fall seriously ill tomorrow I get free healthcare, one thing I never need to worry about is healthcare and what happens when I fall ill.

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