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Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 20 43.5%

  • No.

    Votes: 26 56.5%
  • Total voters
    46
rathi said:
The comments in this thread perfectly illustrates why terrorism exists. Americans with cushy lifestyles are calling for the wanton murder of civilians whose only crime is to live next to some pirates. The pirates so far have not killed a single American, much less anyone personally known to them. Still, the dehumanizing of innocents and desire for blood is strong.

You wonder why Palestinians call for the deaths of Israeli civilians? They live in poverty and watch their family members die. The misplaced hatred is magnified quite a bit when they actually have something to complain about. It is all too easy to give into anger and simply lash out with violence.

The thing that makes the U.S. different from various terrorists is that we make military choices based on logic and reason, not revenge fantasies. Pirates have been killed, but only because it was necessary, not out of hatred.
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Enough liberal prattle.

There is no wanton murder. That is pure liberal bull**** and you should be ashamed of yourself for spewing it.

We need to make sure these pirates cannot continue to cause grief. We need to make it clear that taking ships will NOT be tolerated.

If you lack the ball-balls to do what must be done, STEP ASIDE AND LEAVE THAT JOB TO THOSE WHO DO.

Do not sit there and spew lies and rhetoric.

We are not calling for murder --- we are not even calling for killings... we are merely calling for measures that prevent Somali ****bags from committing acts of piracy and murder.

If you cannot handle that, I am sorry.
 
rathi said:
The comments in this thread perfectly illustrates why terrorism exists. Americans with cushy lifestyles are calling for the wanton murder of civilians whose only crime is to live next to some pirates. The pirates so far have not killed a single American, much less anyone personally known to them. Still, the dehumanizing of innocents and desire for blood is strong.

You wonder why Palestinians call for the deaths of Israeli civilians? They live in poverty and watch their family members die. The misplaced hatred is magnified quite a bit when they actually have something to complain about. It is all too easy to give into anger and simply lash out with violence.

The thing that makes the U.S. different from various terrorists is that we make military choices based on logic and reason, not revenge fantasies. Pirates have been killed, but only because it was necessary, not out of hatred.
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The reason we have a cushy lifestyle is because we are willing to throw off the yoke of imperialism, and demand a portion of the wealth of our nation.

We kicked the British out a long time ago....

Maybe it is time for other countries to join the age of revolution, to throw out their home grown oppressors. I bet France still has a few guillotines on hand. They certainly knew how to deal with kings who cared nothing for their subjects.
 
The reason we have a cushy lifestyle is because we are willing to throw off the yoke of imperialism, and demand a portion of the wealth of our nation.

We kicked the British out a long time ago....
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The Americans were quite wealthy when ruled by the British. We have a cushy lifestyle because we managed to industrialize. Canada didn't throw out the British, and are quite well of as well.

Maybe it is time for other countries to join the age of revolution, to throw out their home grown oppressors. I bet France still has a few guillotines on hand. They certainly knew how to deal with kings who cared nothing for their subjects.
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The pirates have all the weapons and money in Somalia, putting the locals at a significant disadvantage. However, even if you want a local revolt, carpet bombing them is going to prevent revolution, not create it.

As for you Vader, I'd suggest you just calm down. You call for the death of everyone so often it becomes meaningless.
 
rathi said:
The Americans were quite wealthy when ruled by the British. We have a cushy lifestyle because we managed to industrialize. Canada didn't throw out the British, and are quite well of as well.



.
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Canada is still a colony of the British empire? If so, in name only.....it has its own govt, military, laws, etc. Passports are required to enter canada, even from england...
 
rathi said:
The comments in this thread perfectly illustrates why terrorism exists. Americans with cushy lifestyles are calling for the wanton murder of civilians whose only crime is to live next to some pirates. The pirates so far have not killed a single American, much less anyone personally known to them. Still, the dehumanizing of innocents and desire for blood is strong.
Click to expand...
I'm not calling for the murder of any civilians. I'm calling for swift and bloody reprisals against pirates and those who give them safe harbor. If a village on the coast has only peaceful fishers and the like, of course they should be left in peace.

rathi said:
You wonder why Palestinians call for the deaths of Israeli civilians? They live in poverty and watch their family members die. The misplaced hatred is magnified quite a bit when they actually have something to complain about. It is all too easy to give into anger and simply lash out with violence.
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Is that why the Palestinians put rocket batteries in their own schools and hospitals, and why they will dig tunnels to smuggle weapons into Gaza but not one single bomb shelter to give the civilians shelter when the inevitable reprisals for their rocket attacks on Israel descend on them?

rathi said:
The thing that makes the U.S. different from various terrorists is that we make military choices based on logic and reason, not revenge fantasies. Pirates have been killed, but only because it was necessary, not out of hatred.
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Agreed. I don't hate the pirates. If they'll stop being pirates, I'll stop saying they should be killed. Reasonable, logical, and justified.;)
 
Canada is still a colony of the British empire? If so, in name only.....it has its own govt, military, laws, etc. Passports are required to enter canada, even from england...
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I didn't say that. I said
Canada didn't throw out the British, and are quite well of as well.
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Canada is pretty much independent today, but they did so without any kind of revolution. Britain basically just gave them their freedom.

My point was that our wealth has little to do with our war for independence.
 
I'm not calling for the murder of any civilians. I'm calling for swift and bloody reprisals against pirates and those who give them safe harbor. If a village on the coast has only peaceful fishers and the like, of course they should be left in peace.
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So I take it you support the Nazi and Soviet reprisals against villages in which partisan groups once operated? I am not exaggerating, you are describing EXACTLY the same tactics we once demonized our enemies for using.

Is that why the Palestinians put rocket batteries in their own schools and hospitals, and why they will dig tunnels to smuggle weapons into Gaza but not one single bomb shelter to give the civilians shelter when the inevitable reprisals for their rocket attacks on Israel descend on them?
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You missed the point. If you are so demanding of blood for petty actions that don't really effect you, how do you those who truly suffer feel? It certainly doesn't excuse such stupid and harmful behavior, but it is quite clear what the causes are.

Agreed. I don't hate the pirates. If they'll stop being pirates, I'll stop saying they should be killed. Reasonable, logical, and justified.
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Except you are talking about slaughtering the people who happen to live in the same village as the pirates. That is completely different and unacceptable. Shooting pirates in boats is one thing, destroying entire villages is something else.
 
rathi said:
So I take it you support the Nazi and Soviet reprisals against villages in which partisan groups once operated? I am not exaggerating, you are describing EXACTLY the same tactics we once demonized our enemies for using.
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If we were occupying and conquering, your analogy would hold. As we aren't, it's just a straw man, fit only to be disregarded.

rathi said:
You missed the point. If you are so demanding of blood for petty actions that don't really effect you, how do you those who truly suffer feel? It certainly doesn't excuse such stupid and harmful behavior, but it is quite clear what the causes are.
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1. Piracy is not petty.
2. It affects everyone.
3. Poverty and privation do not justify piracy, so the appeal to suffering is also a straw man and appropriately disregarded.


rathi said:
Except you are talking about slaughtering the people who happen to live in the same village as the pirates. That is completely different and unacceptable. Shooting pirates in boats is one thing, destroying entire villages is something else.
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So let the villagers tell the pirates to a) stop or b) get the hell out of the village.

If they won't, that's called giving refuge/safe harbor/aid and comfort. That makes the villagers accomplices, and thus accountable as if they were pirates.
 
Laila said:
Or the fact Egyptians along with other countries have been enterting our waters and stealing out fishes.
The correct response for me is to steal Egyptian and European ships in retaliation no?

Just yesterday a Egyptian boat was found fishing illegally in Somali waters. What do you think the correct punishment is?
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Two wrongs do not make a right.

Your support for theft and murder is most disturbing.

You should seek help.
 
If we were occupying and conquering, your analogy would hold. As we aren't, it's just a straw man, fit only to be disregarded.
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Its not a straw man. The tactic of killing civilians as a reprisal is what I am arguing against, and that is exactly what you are proposing. Stopping pirates may be a just cause, but using unnecessary and evil methods is not acceptable. Furthermore, I would challenge the effectiveness of such methods. Most likely, you would turn Somali into a hotbed for terrorist recruitment. You might stop piracy only to create a far worse problem.

1. Piracy is not petty.
2. It affects everyone.
3. Poverty and privation do not justify piracy, so the appeal to suffering is also a straw man and appropriately disregarded.
Click to expand...

You still fail to understand. Poverty CAUSES piracy, it does not justify it. A desire for revenge CAUSES terrorism, it does not justify it. Pirates taking Americans hostage CAUSES you to call for mass murder, it does not justify it.

So let the villagers tell the pirates to a) stop or b) get the hell out of the village.

If they won't, that's called giving refuge/safe harbor/aid and comfort. That makes the villagers accomplices, and thus accountable as if they were pirates.
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Living in the same town as a criminal makes you an accomplice? That an false definition of accomplice. Should the British have obliterated Dublin because of the IRA attacks?
 
Vader said:
Two wrongs do not make a right.

Your support for theft and murder is most disturbing.

You should seek help.
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How is advocating privateering as a response to poaching and violations of territorial claims any more support for theft and murder than advocating collective punishment against communities that harbor pirates?
 
rathi said:
You still fail to understand. Poverty CAUSES piracy, it does not justify it. A desire for revenge CAUSES terrorism, it does not justify it. Pirates taking Americans hostage CAUSES you to call for mass murder, it does not justify it.
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This fallacy invalidates your entire argument.

Poverty does not cause anything except poor people.
 
This fallacy invalidates your entire argument.

Poverty does not cause anything except poor people.
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Piracy only exists today in communities poor enough for piracy to be a significantly more profitable than any other local occupations. Somalia has no functioning government, extreme poverty, and is perfectly positioned to pillage major trade routes. That doesn't absolve the pirates of any blame for their actions, but it doesn't change the fact that there are causes for piracy, poverty being one of them.

Furthermore, that was an observation, not the core of my argument. You have yet to address why it acceptable to kill the people who simply live in the proximity of the pirates.
 
rathi said:
Furthermore, that was an observation, not the core of my argument. You have yet to address why it acceptable to kill the people who simply live in the proximity of the pirates.
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They give them safe harbor, therefore they become accomplices and co-conspirators.

As I have said multiple times, if these "innocent" villagers will eject the pirates from their midst, and deny them safe harbor, then absolutely there is no reason to catch them up in eradicating pirate scum. Villages that shelter pirates should be dealt with as pirates--swiftly and bloodily.
 
They give them safe harbor, therefore they become accomplices and co-conspirators.
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Living in the same village as someone is NOT giving them safe harbor. Do you seriously think an American court would prosecute someones neighbor just simply they lived next door?

As I have said multiple times, if these "innocent" villagers will eject the pirates from their midst, and deny them safe harbor, then absolutely there is no reason to catch them up in eradicating pirate scum.
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How exactly is a villager supposed to eject a bunch of heavily armed pirates out of their village? They have no weapons, no resources and no government to call upon.

Villages that shelter pirates should be dealt with as pirates--swiftly and bloodily.
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You still have failed to make the most basic point. How does living in the same village equate to sheltering?
 
celticlord said:
They give them safe harbor, therefore they become accomplices and co-conspirators.

As I have said multiple times, if these "innocent" villagers will eject the pirates from their midst, and deny them safe harbor, then absolutely there is no reason to catch them up in eradicating pirate scum.
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These people have no options but to shelter these pirates, who are the chief economic providers to an impoverished community. Until we communicate to them that we plan on helping them out, and organizing a plan to separate the villagers from the criminal mobs to seize control, there is absolutely no way a rational, informed person can blame them.

Villages that shelter pirates should be dealt with as pirates--swiftly and bloodily.
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Do you really, honestly think that the world is going to take this fanatical, thoughtless bulls*it seriously? The way you think, you'd fit right in with these criminal organizations in Somalia.
 
celticlord said:
They give them safe harbor, therefore they become accomplices and co-conspirators.

As I have said multiple times, if these "innocent" villagers will eject the pirates from their midst, and deny them safe harbor, then absolutely there is no reason to catch them up in eradicating pirate scum. Villages that shelter pirates should be dealt with as pirates--swiftly and bloodily.
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pirates.jpg


Have you seen what kind of boats these guys drive, they don't need a harbor.

You act as if people who have nothing to do with these pirates, somehow are also holding guns to peoples heads.

How are the villagers to eject people with guns, money and a big headed mentality?

You are suggesting to these villagers, if you don't get yourself killed by kicking out armed men with guns, we will kill you.

I bet these people are happy, at least now they don't have to worry about starvation, malaria or aids killing them.
 
thabigred said:
pirates.jpg


Have you seen what kind of boats these guys drive, they don't need a harbor.

You act as if people who have nothing to do with these pirates, somehow are also holding guns to peoples heads.

How are the villagers to eject people with guns, money and a big headed mentality?

You are suggesting to these villagers, if you don't get yourself killed by kicking out armed men with guns, we will kill you.

I bet these people are happy, at least now they don't have to worry about starvation, malaria or aids killing them.
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wow the pirates cured AIDS? :shock::rofl
 
thabigred said:
I bet these people are happy, at least now they don't have to worry about starvation, malaria or aids killing them.
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Sounds like these "innocent" villagers are happy to live off pirate booty. So much for innocence.
 
celticlord said:
Sounds like these "innocent" villagers are happy to live off pirate booty. So much for innocence.
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If you lived in a hut, you would live off of anything you could. Get off of your high horse.
 
EgoffTib said:
If you lived in a hut, you would live off of anything you could. Get off of your high horse.
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Non sequitur. As as already been established, poverty does not justify piracy. That includes parasitically feeding off someone else's piracy. Those that do should be damned right along side the pirates.
 
celticlord said:
Non sequitur. As as already been established, poverty does not justify piracy. That includes parasitically feeding off someone else's piracy. Those that do should be damned right along side the pirates.
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This is ridiculous. So if people mooch off of pirates because they are starving and poor, they should be put to death. Flawless logic, coming from someone who is not starving or poor. It's always easier to tell someone to go **** themselves when they ask you to walk a mile in their shoes...
 
EgoffTib said:
So if people mooch off of pirates because they are starving and poor, they should be put to death.
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Exactly. Accomplices are as guilty as perpetrators.
 
Non sequitur. As as already been established, poverty does not justify piracy. That includes parasitically feeding off someone else's piracy. Those that do should be damned right along side the pirates.
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You have yet to establish that all of the villagers are "feeding of the pirates". Certainly some do, but provide some proof that all of them support the pirates.
 
rathi said:
You have yet to establish that all of the villagers are "feeding of the pirates". Certainly some do, but provide some proof that all of them support the pirates.
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It seems to be common knowledge, given that thabigred and EgoffTib are quite consumed with justifying it.
 
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