View Poll Results: Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

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Thread: Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

  1. #81
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    Re: Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

    Canada is still a colony of the British empire? If so, in name only.....it has its own govt, military, laws, etc. Passports are required to enter canada, even from england...
    I didn't say that. I said
    Canada didn't throw out the British, and are quite well of as well.
    Canada is pretty much independent today, but they did so without any kind of revolution. Britain basically just gave them their freedom.

    My point was that our wealth has little to do with our war for independence.

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    Re: Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

    I'm not calling for the murder of any civilians. I'm calling for swift and bloody reprisals against pirates and those who give them safe harbor. If a village on the coast has only peaceful fishers and the like, of course they should be left in peace.
    So I take it you support the Nazi and Soviet reprisals against villages in which partisan groups once operated? I am not exaggerating, you are describing EXACTLY the same tactics we once demonized our enemies for using.

    Is that why the Palestinians put rocket batteries in their own schools and hospitals, and why they will dig tunnels to smuggle weapons into Gaza but not one single bomb shelter to give the civilians shelter when the inevitable reprisals for their rocket attacks on Israel descend on them?
    You missed the point. If you are so demanding of blood for petty actions that don't really effect you, how do you those who truly suffer feel? It certainly doesn't excuse such stupid and harmful behavior, but it is quite clear what the causes are.

    Agreed. I don't hate the pirates. If they'll stop being pirates, I'll stop saying they should be killed. Reasonable, logical, and justified.
    Except you are talking about slaughtering the people who happen to live in the same village as the pirates. That is completely different and unacceptable. Shooting pirates in boats is one thing, destroying entire villages is something else.

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    Re: Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    So I take it you support the Nazi and Soviet reprisals against villages in which partisan groups once operated? I am not exaggerating, you are describing EXACTLY the same tactics we once demonized our enemies for using.
    If we were occupying and conquering, your analogy would hold. As we aren't, it's just a straw man, fit only to be disregarded.

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    You missed the point. If you are so demanding of blood for petty actions that don't really effect you, how do you those who truly suffer feel? It certainly doesn't excuse such stupid and harmful behavior, but it is quite clear what the causes are.
    1. Piracy is not petty.
    2. It affects everyone.
    3. Poverty and privation do not justify piracy, so the appeal to suffering is also a straw man and appropriately disregarded.


    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Except you are talking about slaughtering the people who happen to live in the same village as the pirates. That is completely different and unacceptable. Shooting pirates in boats is one thing, destroying entire villages is something else.
    So let the villagers tell the pirates to a) stop or b) get the hell out of the village.

    If they won't, that's called giving refuge/safe harbor/aid and comfort. That makes the villagers accomplices, and thus accountable as if they were pirates.

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    Re: Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Or the fact Egyptians along with other countries have been enterting our waters and stealing out fishes.
    The correct response for me is to steal Egyptian and European ships in retaliation no?

    Just yesterday a Egyptian boat was found fishing illegally in Somali waters. What do you think the correct punishment is?
    Two wrongs do not make a right.

    Your support for theft and murder is most disturbing.

    You should seek help.

  5. #85
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    Re: Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

    If we were occupying and conquering, your analogy would hold. As we aren't, it's just a straw man, fit only to be disregarded.
    Its not a straw man. The tactic of killing civilians as a reprisal is what I am arguing against, and that is exactly what you are proposing. Stopping pirates may be a just cause, but using unnecessary and evil methods is not acceptable. Furthermore, I would challenge the effectiveness of such methods. Most likely, you would turn Somali into a hotbed for terrorist recruitment. You might stop piracy only to create a far worse problem.

    1. Piracy is not petty.
    2. It affects everyone.
    3. Poverty and privation do not justify piracy, so the appeal to suffering is also a straw man and appropriately disregarded.
    You still fail to understand. Poverty CAUSES piracy, it does not justify it. A desire for revenge CAUSES terrorism, it does not justify it. Pirates taking Americans hostage CAUSES you to call for mass murder, it does not justify it.

    So let the villagers tell the pirates to a) stop or b) get the hell out of the village.

    If they won't, that's called giving refuge/safe harbor/aid and comfort. That makes the villagers accomplices, and thus accountable as if they were pirates.
    Living in the same town as a criminal makes you an accomplice? That an false definition of accomplice. Should the British have obliterated Dublin because of the IRA attacks?

  6. #86
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    Re: Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Two wrongs do not make a right.

    Your support for theft and murder is most disturbing.

    You should seek help.
    How is advocating privateering as a response to poaching and violations of territorial claims any more support for theft and murder than advocating collective punishment against communities that harbor pirates?

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    Re: Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    You still fail to understand. Poverty CAUSES piracy, it does not justify it. A desire for revenge CAUSES terrorism, it does not justify it. Pirates taking Americans hostage CAUSES you to call for mass murder, it does not justify it.
    This fallacy invalidates your entire argument.

    Poverty does not cause anything except poor people.

  8. #88
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    Re: Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

    This fallacy invalidates your entire argument.

    Poverty does not cause anything except poor people.
    Piracy only exists today in communities poor enough for piracy to be a significantly more profitable than any other local occupations. Somalia has no functioning government, extreme poverty, and is perfectly positioned to pillage major trade routes. That doesn't absolve the pirates of any blame for their actions, but it doesn't change the fact that there are causes for piracy, poverty being one of them.

    Furthermore, that was an observation, not the core of my argument. You have yet to address why it acceptable to kill the people who simply live in the proximity of the pirates.

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    Re: Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Furthermore, that was an observation, not the core of my argument. You have yet to address why it acceptable to kill the people who simply live in the proximity of the pirates.
    They give them safe harbor, therefore they become accomplices and co-conspirators.

    As I have said multiple times, if these "innocent" villagers will eject the pirates from their midst, and deny them safe harbor, then absolutely there is no reason to catch them up in eradicating pirate scum. Villages that shelter pirates should be dealt with as pirates--swiftly and bloodily.

  10. #90
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    Re: Should the U.S. Navy shell Somali villages that harbor pirates?

    They give them safe harbor, therefore they become accomplices and co-conspirators.
    Living in the same village as someone is NOT giving them safe harbor. Do you seriously think an American court would prosecute someones neighbor just simply they lived next door?

    As I have said multiple times, if these "innocent" villagers will eject the pirates from their midst, and deny them safe harbor, then absolutely there is no reason to catch them up in eradicating pirate scum.
    How exactly is a villager supposed to eject a bunch of heavily armed pirates out of their village? They have no weapons, no resources and no government to call upon.

    Villages that shelter pirates should be dealt with as pirates--swiftly and bloodily.
    You still have failed to make the most basic point. How does living in the same village equate to sheltering?

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