View Poll Results: Are marriage licenses good or bad

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  • Yes -- government needs to issue them

    8 28.57%
  • No -- government should not be issuing them

    20 71.43%
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Thread: Are marriage licenses good or bad?

  1. #21
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    Re: Are marriage licenses good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    A contract isn't required for 'mommy and daddy' to stay together. So that's really not a reason for said contracts.
    While it may not be required, it most certainly is helpful--sufficiently so that it does become a reason for said contracts.

  2. #22
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    Re: Are marriage licenses good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    I agree that they should be harder to dissolve. I think that if "till death do us part" is part of the contract, then the the contract should be binding for as long as both parties are still alive, or until they mutually agree to a renegotiated contract.
    Most contracts give one party the option to get out for cause, i.e. the other party does not abide by the terms of the contract.

    Should a woman have to stay in a relationship that is abusive? Should a man have to stay in a relationship where the woman sleeps with other men?

    .

  3. #23
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    Re: Are marriage licenses good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    Most contracts give one party the option to get out for cause, i.e. the other party does not abide by the terms of the contract.

    Should a woman have to stay in a relationship that is abusive? Should a man have to stay in a relationship where the woman sleeps with other men?
    Applying the principles of contract law, the default response would be "depends on the terms of the contract."

    Drilling further, I would argue that abuse would ultimately be a breach of the contract. In fact, applying contract law makes it easier to define abuse, and to derive meaningful and appropriate remedy (i.e., spankings might not be abusive if allowed under the contract, but face slapping would be prohibited).

    As for whether sleeping with another is grounds to void the contract, that would depend entirely on whether monogamy was in the contract, or if there were other limitations placed on permissible sexual activities. In a contract for an "open" relationship, for example, the only restriction might be use of condoms and contraception.

  4. #24
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    Re: Are marriage licenses good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    A contract isn't required for 'mommy and daddy' to stay together. So that's really not a reason for said contracts.
    I don't know...maybe. I've been married, and there's good times and not-so-good times...and sometimes a little extra reason to hang in there during the not-so-good times could help.

    A good many people still regard marriage as a religious matter, and those who take their religion seriously abide by whatever the teachings on marriage are. Does not apply to the non-observent, but that's one thing that can help keep a marriage together.

    If there is property, there has to be some method for dividing it in the event the couple part ways. Without a contract, whoever has things in their name walks away with them, in the absence of other laws. Deciding who gets primary custody of the children, whether/how much the other parent gets visitation or a say in the children's upbringing, these are all problems if there is no contract or law about couple-dom.

    I think its a little more complicated than just "love will keep us together".
    Last edited by Goshin; 04-11-09 at 06:10 PM.

  5. #25
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    Re: Are marriage licenses good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I don't know...maybe. I've been married, and there's good times and not-so-good times...and sometimes a little extra reason to hang in there during the not-so-good times could help.
    Sometimes?

    Love doesn't stand a chance against burnt toast and dirty dishes.

  6. #26
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    Re: Are marriage licenses good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    While it may not be required, it most certainly is helpful--sufficiently so that it does become a reason for said contracts.
    How is it helpful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I don't know...maybe. I've been married, and there's good times and not-so-good times...and sometimes a little extra reason to hang in there during the not-so-good times could help.
    And what's the little "extra reason" you're talking about? Some signature on a contract that can be nullified within a matter of minutes?

    A good many people still regard marriage as a religious matter, and those who take their religion seriously abide by whatever the teachings on marriage are. Does not apply to the non-observent, but that's one thing that can help keep a marriage together.
    And it's not necessary for the government to intrude on such religious matters. The non-existence of government marriage contracts doesn't mean that people can't get married by the religious teachings of their choice. In fact, removing the government from marriage would return it back to the religious.

    If there is property, there has to be some method for dividing it in the event the couple part ways. Without a contract, whoever has things in their name walks away with them, in the absence of other laws.
    That can be taken care of without a marriage contract.

    Deciding who gets primary custody of the children, whether/how much the other parent gets visitation or a say in the children's upbringing, these are all problems if there is no contract or law about couple-dom.
    Marriage is not even remotely necessary to solve this problem either.

    I think its a little more complicated than just "love will keep us together".
    It's a lot more complicated than 'a piece of paper will keep us together' too. That piece of paper isn't going to make or break the relationship.

    I take that back. It's certainly possible for it to break the relationship, but I can't see how it could possibly help one.

  7. #27
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    Re: Are marriage licenses good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    I'm not so sure about that. Seems to me that contract law would work to the favor of the contracting parties and against government regulation.
    Before the '06 and '08 elections I would have been inclined to agree with you, however the D.C. politicians have gone out of their way to disrespect the contracts of private companies and individuals, so I'm not so sure they would leave people's marriages alone.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  8. #28
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    Re: Are marriage licenses good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    How is it helpful?
    By increasing the degree of difficulty involved in ending a relationship. The less easy it is to walk out, the more reason one has to stay. Any long term relationship is going to have its share of bad times where, all things being equal, walking out is going to seem attractive. Most of the time, those bad times will pass, and, if the partners are willing, most differences can be resolved. Making leaving a reasonably difficult proposition gives added incentive to working things out.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    And what's the little "extra reason" you're talking about? Some signature on a contract that can be nullified within a matter of minutes?
    There are not too many well written contracts that can be that capriciously voided. That "signature" is more binding than love ever will be.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    And it's not necessary for the government to intrude on such religious matters. The non-existence of government marriage contracts doesn't mean that people can't get married by the religious teachings of their choice. In fact, removing the government from marriage would return it back to the religious.
    What is today called "marriage" has two dimensions, religious and legal/social. The religious aspects should be outside the purview of government. The legal and social aspects are arguably valid matters for government; at the very least a strong case can be made for government recognition of relationships as a means to protect various property rights in the event of a breakup. Absolutely the two should be separated, but that does not mean that the larger community does not benefit from people and especially parents having stable long-term relationships.


    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    That can be taken care of without a marriage contract.
    Not really. Whether it's called "marriage" or "civil union", whether we explicitly acknowledge it or no, there are elements of a contract even in the current state of civil marriage today. Wherever you have bilateral obligations, you have some form of contract by definition. Not only can things not be taken care of without some form of contract, in any relationship the contractual elements are unavoidable.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Marriage is not even remotely necessary to solve this problem either.
    Perhaps not, but a strong relationship where the partners are incented to live and work together to build a healthy family and household is definitely a healthy environment overall for children. That much is beyond all debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    It's a lot more complicated than 'a piece of paper will keep us together' too. That piece of paper isn't going to make or break the relationship.
    On its own? No. But the idea isn't to replace love and affection with contracts, but to augment love and affection with contracts.

    I take that back. It's certainly possible for it to break the relationship, but I can't see how it could possibly help one.[/QUOTE]
    On its own, it's no more sufficient than love. Love coupled with a good contract, however, has a significantly greater chance of enduring than love on its own. Anyone who believes otherwise....probably has never been in love.

  9. #29
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    Re: Are marriage licenses good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Before the '06 and '08 elections I would have been inclined to agree with you, however the D.C. politicians have gone out of their way to disrespect the contracts of private companies and individuals, so I'm not so sure they would leave people's marriages alone.
    They had better. There are two things the self-respecting man will not part with: his woman and his weapon.

  10. #30
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    Re: Are marriage licenses good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    They had better. There are two things the self-respecting man will not part with: his woman and his weapon.
    I've parted ways with many women, never my weapon though.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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