View Poll Results: Are we an Arrogant country?

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  • Yes

    70 66.04%
  • No

    36 33.96%
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Thread: Are we an arrogant country?

  1. #211
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    We're the World Police. We feel it is our duty to monitor all of the world's activities.
    Gotta take issue with that, hear me out. It is our government that intervenes in that manner, with much dissention from either side of the aisle depending on the reasoning for doing so. Also we, unlike many other member countries within the U.N. uphold our end of the bargain in enforcing resolutions and NATO sanctions, it's not a good justification but a responsibility we have, which is one of the many reasons to get out of the U.N.
    We feel that it is our place to tell countries that they are not allowed to create weapons. That is arrogance.
    Certain countries shouldn't have weapons, those without the proper channels to launch a nuke or bio-weapon should be monitored closely, how much of that falls on our shoulders is more than fair for debate, but I don't think anyone can argue that N.Korea, Iran, formerly Iraq, and a few of the terrorist havens shouldn't have any kind of mass destruction capability.
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Your president, that you love so much TOJ, is on a world apology tour because he has a consciounce and is probably the first president in recent times to realize, that perhaps taking into consideration the thoughts and feelings of states abroad regarding certain issues without blowing things up and making a mess of everything first is the right thing to do. In the midst of the economic crises in america, its becoming more and more evident that you cant just think about yourselves and rely on yourselves only and do whatever you want. You need the support of the internation community. No good seeking support in NATO or whatever issue it may be if those countries feel American policies are just lame arse and destructive like the warlord Bush's policies.
    Um the financial crisis has nothing to do with foreign policy whatsoever, what are you even talking about? If the financial crisis actually proves anything it is that the entire global economy relies on a successful U.S. economy.

  3. #213
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    We're the World Police. We feel it is our duty to monitor all of the world's activities. We feel that it is our place to tell countries that they are not allowed to create weapons. That is arrogance.
    I want you to think for a moment why the US has taken on that "perceived" role; there are many reasons, but I will keep it simple here.

    Our Western and Canadian allies have feckless small military’s. The reason for this is that they have CHOSEN to hand over security issues to the United States which has the worlds most powerful military force so that they can spend HUGE sums on their social welfare programs.

    The United Nations look to the United States when it comes to enforcing UN resolutions. Much for the reasons above; no one else has the military might to enforce them.

    It was not a role the United States CHOSE through arrogance, it was a role that evolved because of the all the mistakes made by Europe in their Imperialist empire building of the past and global problems in Asia and the Middle East, the base of which climaxed with World War II.

    In the Middle East, we were not the arrogant Imperialists; we were the neutral party that was asked to broker peace between the factions. We reluctantly went along with the carving of a Jewish State out of Palestine. We were close allies with the Saudi Kingdom. We forced the French and the British to stop their invasion of Egypt during the Suez crises.

    Hardly being the arrogant Imperialists, we were the ones attempting to keep the peace while also preventing Soviet Communist Imperialism. We were not the ones who exploited Middle Eastern oil; that was the British and the Dutch.

    So before you make such uninformed claims, do a little historical research before spewing your DNC talking points.

    The FACT is that if we do not attempt to maintain order and peace, no one else is capable of it. The notion that the UN could do anything without US force and money requires the willing suspension of disbelief.

    The United States, contrary to popular opinion on DP, is the singular force in the world for all that is good; if you define “good” as human dignity, human rights, economic prosperity and freedom. No other nation in the world or combination of nations can do what we can do. The notion that we should retreat into a cocoon and this would make the Globe a safer better place requires historical ignorance.

  4. #214
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    We're the World Police. We feel it is our duty to monitor all of the world's activities. We feel that it is our place to tell countries that they are not allowed to create weapons. That is arrogance.
    Unfortunately, we're self-elected to fill a role nobody else wants us in. When we piss everyone else off and they retaliate, we suddenly act like we're the ones that have been wronged.
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Unfortunately, we're self-elected to fill a role nobody else wants us in. When we piss everyone else off and they retaliate, we suddenly act like we're the ones that have been wronged.
    Once more, the notion that the US self elected itself requires willful ignorance or the willing suspension of disbelief.

    Read the above comments I made to your buddy and become informed rather than spewing the nonsense that is typified by someone who is ignorant of the historic record.

    You are of course welcome to debate my version of the historic record with facts and links to support your assertions that the US has somehow, without outside influences, interjected itself in global affairs.

  6. #216
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Once more, the notion that the US self elected itself requires willful ignorance or the willing suspension of disbelief.

    Read the above comments I made to your buddy and become informed rather than spewing the nonsense that is typified by someone who is ignorant of the historic record.

    You are of course welcome to debate my version of the historic record with facts and links to support your assertions that the US has somehow, without outside influences, interjected itself in global affairs.
    So when the UN went to a vote that the US invasion of Grenada was an act of aggression and the only reason it was rejected was because we vetoed it that isn't an example of the US forcefully injecting itself into other's affairs? (Vote: 122 in favor, 9 oppossed, 27 abstentions)

    And when we invaded Iraq outside the confines of UN authority with a "coalition of the willing" we were once again acting as restrained constituent in global affairs as oppossed to a hegemonic dictator?
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  7. #217
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    So when the UN went to a vote that the US invasion of Grenada was an act of aggression and the only reason it was rejected was because we vetoed it that isn't an example of the US forcefully injecting itself into other's affairs? (Vote: 122 in favor, 9 oppossed, 27 abstentions)
    No it was not an example of US forcefully interjecting itself into other's affairs, it was an example of the US Government protecting US citizens who were being threatened by the illegitimate party led by Deputy Prime Minister Bernard Coard who placed the legitimate Prime Minister Bishop under house arrest, instituted military rule and eventually murdered Bishop.

    The Organization of Eastern Caribbean States (OECS) appealed to the United States, Barbados, and Jamaica for assistance and many of the population of Grenada supported our ousting of an illegitimate ruler who was supported by Communists of Cuba and the Soviet Union.
    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Urgent_Fury]Invasion of Grenada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    I find it fascinating when the America haters like you think it is right for communists to take over Governments by force but it is wrong for the US to invade to re-institute the legitimate Government and Constitution of this nation and protect its citizens.

    Why is that?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    And when we invaded Iraq outside the confines of UN authority with a "coalition of the willing" we were once again acting as restrained constituent in global affairs as oppossed to a hegemonic dictator?
    Once again your version of events represents the hate America mentality of Leftists who have a blatant disregard of the facts and events surrounding our legitimate invasion of Iraq to enforce resolutions defied by Saddam Hussein for over a decade.

    The only thing more fascinating is that the America haters like you think that Saddam Hussein should have been left in power after invading two neighboring nations and defying agreements he had signed in order to remain in power.

    America led the coalition to oust Saddam from Kuwait during the Gulf War and the US has always been the nation who provided the most aid, the most force and enforces resolutions which UN nations cannot do themselves.

    Under UN resolutions, member states are given the power to enforce UN resolutions and it did not require Frances, Russia’s or China’s blessings to enforce resolutions a decade after they had been defied nor do these resolutions suggest that it requires further action from the UN to enforce those resolutions.

    I suggest you read UN resolution 687 in its entirety and specifically enforcement contained item 27 and 678 in its entirety and specifically enforcement contained item #2 and the Joint resolution to go into Iraq so that you can be better informed as to what amounts to LEGAL authority.

    UN Resolutions on Iraq
    http://www.casi.org.uk/info/undocs/gopher/s90/32

    Un resolution 678
    http://www.casi.org.uk/info/undocs/gopher/s91/4

    Un Resolution 687
    UN Security Council resolutions relating to Iraq

    Joint Authorization on Iraq
    S. J. Res 45 Auhorizing Use of Armed Forces Against Iraq

  8. #218
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    We're the World Police. We feel it is our duty to monitor all of the world's activities. We feel that it is our place to tell countries that they are not allowed to create weapons. That is arrogance.
    Well, without world police, we end up with nightmares such as WWI (16 million dead) and WWII (72 million dead).

    I know there are some around the world and even in the U.S. who'd like to compare our last administration to the tyrants who caused these worldwide tragedies. I think their perspective of history is somewhat distorted.


  9. #219
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Gotta take issue with that, hear me out. It is our government that intervenes in that manner, with much dissention from either side of the aisle depending on the reasoning for doing so. Also we, unlike many other member countries within the U.N. uphold our end of the bargain in enforcing resolutions and NATO sanctions, it's not a good justification but a responsibility we have, which is one of the many reasons to get out of the U.N.
    Right... I'm not sure how that refutes anything I've said.

    Certain countries shouldn't have weapons
    In your opinion. They probably think we should not have weapons. So now what?

    those without the proper channels to launch a nuke or bio-weapon should be monitored closely, how much of that falls on our shoulders is more than fair for debate, but I don't think anyone can argue that N.Korea, Iran, formerly Iraq, and a few of the terrorist havens shouldn't have any kind of mass destruction capability.
    No one should have mass destruction capability. It's a bit late to start saying "Hey, we're America. I know we have nukes, but you can't. That may sound hypocritical, but we Americans trust ourselves and have decided that you should dismantle your weapons because we don't trust you. Thanks!"
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  10. #220
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    Re: Are we an arrogant country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Well, without world police, we end up with nightmares such as WWI (16 million dead) and WWII (72 million dead).
    How would you care to support that? All of our meddling in the Middle East pissed off enough people to give them reason to fly themselves into buildings.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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